Each Christmas season since 2000, the sacred musical drama “Savior of the World: His Birth and Resurrection” has been performed at the Conference Center Theater on Temple Square in Salt Lake City. The two-act show — produced by The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints —follows the scriptural accounts surrounding Jesus Christ’s birth and Resurrection.
On this episode of the Church News podcast, members of the 2024 production share their experiences while crafting performances: director Paul Walstad; Troy Hanks, who plays the apostle Peter; and Karli Welch, who portrays Mary, the mother of Jesus.
They talk about how a team of hundreds of performers, production and technical crews present the musical as a testimony of Jesus Christ and His divine mission as the Savior and Redeemer of the world.
Listen to this episode of the Church News podcast on Apple Podcasts, Amazon, Spotify, bookshelf PLUS, YouTube or wherever you get podcasts.
Transcript:
Paul Walstad: Many times each day, I think, “Come, Lord Jesus.” And it’s interesting; the directing team and the production staff, we’re in the back singing as much as anyone, “Come, Lord Jesus, to the manger. ... Come, Lord Jesus, to the wounded.” It’s an amazing thing. The ascension angel stands there and tells the apostles, “Why stand ye gazing up into heaven? This same Jesus, whom ye saw go, shall come in like manner as ye have seen Him go.” And this idea that there’s this whole group of people now, us, who are waiting for the Savior to come. And I recognize that in this production of “Savior of the World,” we get an opportunity to come and demonstrate who we are. And maybe when I come to Him, I will be like a little child just wanting to be near Him. And it gives me faith and hope as a father and as a husband, that I will continue to grow brighter and brighter until the perfect day, that I can become someone who could stand before the Savior like a little child.
1:05
Jon Ryan Jensen: This is Jon Ryan Jensen, editor of the Church News. Welcome to the Church News podcast. Today, we are taking you on a journey of connection as we discuss news and events of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
The Church’s sacred musical drama “Savior of the World: His Birth and Resurrection” premiered on Nov. 28, 2000, at the Conference Center Theater on Temple Square in Salt Lake City. For nearly a quarter century, “Savior of the World” has been performed annually around Christmas and follows the scriptural accounts surrounding Jesus Christ’s birth and Resurrection. Each year, a cast of hundreds of performers and production and technical teams present the two-act musical as a testimony of Jesus Christ and His divine mission as the Savior and Redeemer of the world.
On this episode of the Church News podcast, we sit down with members of the 2024 production to hear about their experiences while crafting performances during this beautiful time of year. We’re joined in studio by director Paul Walstad, who has been with the production for two decades; Troy Hanks, who plays the apostle Peter and who has been part of the show several times; and Karli Welch, who is in her first year and portraying Mary, the mother of Jesus.
Welcome, to each of you.
Paul Walstad: Thank you.
Troy Hanks: Thank you.
2:18
Jon Ryan Jensen: I want to get to your individual roles in “Savior of the World.” But before we talk about that, can we help explain to our listeners exactly what “Savior of the World” is and a little bit of background on what it is as a musical?
Paul Walstad: Well, it started back in 2000. The Little Theater had just opened in the Conference Center, and the Brethren had asked for a production to be put up that members of the Church could come to. And I’m sure that could be said better by someone who was in those meetings. But this script came along of “Savior of the World,” the first act depicting all of the events leading up to His birth, and the second act depicting all of the events from His death to His Resurrection and Ascension.
And it’s been subtly changed. I think the first couple years, there was a lot of rewrites. I know the Brethren were very involved in those rewrites in very small ways and big ways, but small ways in maybe even changing of a line or the direction of how the act might go or how the script might be done.
Even at the portrayal of some of the actors, there was a direction one time, “Angels don’t kneel,” because Gabriel had knelt down to talk to Mary so that it was more intimate. And the instruction just came back, “Angels don’t kneel.” And so the directors went back and looked at every scriptural account of angels, and they’re always standing above them in the air, these kind of things. And they thought, “Oh, OK, so let’s depict this as accurate as we can,” because we don’t all know what that would be like, but there’s a way of depicting it that’s not misunderstood, I guess, would be the way.
3:52
Jon Ryan Jensen: Paul, I appreciate it; that’s some important background to have on that. And so senior Church leaders have been involved with its writing and with its revisions throughout time, but it’s performed every single year in the Conference Center Theater. And is this something that only people who love musicals should attend? Is this something that you feel like everybody would enjoy participating in and watching? Karli?
4:15
Karli Welch: Oh, definitely for everybody and everyone. My husband didn’t grow up in a musical theater world, and he just came and saw it, and he was like, “I want to go every night. That was truly remarkable.” And my brother was there too, and he said every other scene he was crying. So definitely something for all.
4:39
Jon Ryan Jensen: I love that he said that, because I remember the first time that I brought a group of young men who I was serving with to it, and they said, “Oh, this ranks up there”; some families have their movies that they love to watch at the start of the Christmas season, but for them, it was, “I need to bring my family to this every year, because this feels so great.” So it’s fun to hear about that kind of a thing.
I know that some people do have their traditions. Do you guys see that a lot of families come back year after year to watch the show?
5:05
Troy Hanks: I’ve been told that by audience members that, “We come every year. We wouldn’t miss it for anything.” And then they’re a little frustrated or sad if they can’t quite get tickets, and then they start to search, “Who has extra tickets so that we can do this?” But the production team has done a really good job of finding ways to get people so they can come.
5:26
Jon Ryan Jensen: And Troy, so while that’s true, your family actually might not have to worry as much about tickets. It’s more about what role you’re going to be in. You’ve had your family participate in this play multiple times with you as well, right?
Troy Hanks: Correct, and we’ve had a great experience doing that. We say in our family it literally changes Christmas for us and has changed Christmas for us. And when we enact the pageant at home on Christmas Eve, we all know the lines because we’ve been taught them well over the years. And I’m not very good at this, but my children who have been in the production can tell you every line from every character in the right place and not miss a word. It’s crazy how they can do it, but they can do it.
6:07
Karli Welch: You’re pretty good at that too. I’ve seen you step in and play the lead shepherd. We were on stage together, I was at the manger, and I had a line with the lead shepherd coming up, and I look over, and it was Troy, and I was like, “That’s not his role.” And he just nailed every single line.
Jon Ryan Jensen: “Peter does not appear to Mary. What is he doing over here?”
Karli Welch: Yeah. “Wait, what?” So I think you know quite a bit of the show as well.
6:28
Jon Ryan Jensen: Yeah, we should mention that. I didn’t say that, but you play the role of Peter this year, and Karli, you’re playing Mary this year. But you haven’t always been Peter. What other roles have you had?
Troy Hanks: Oh boy. I’ve — wow. I’ve portrayed Gabriel a couple of times, the angel to the shepherds, which is just amazing. Everyone in the show should have an opportunity to go up on that mountain and be sung to, if that’s the right word. It’s just incredible to be there. I’ve played Cleopas, who walked along the road to Emmaus with a disciple and walked with Jesus and then didn’t recognize Him until a certain point. I’ve played Peter a couple of times. I’ve played both of the adult shepherds, both grandpa Asa and Eli, his son. Father. I’ve played several of the roles.
7:21
Jon Ryan Jensen: So, having done the different roles, I myself have not done musical theater before, but I’m interested from the perspective of a member of the Church who reads the scriptures, and every time I read the scriptures, I find something new in them, which I think a lot of members have that experience.
When you go through this story, it’s not new to you, but do you find that when you’re taking on a new role each year, do you feel like your faith about that story grows in a different way because of what role you have?
7:48
Troy Hanks: Oh, without a doubt. There have been so many times where an aha moment, we’ll call it, has happened, or when I’ve realized, “Wow, I’ve never thought of it that way,” and it has changed my life for the better and helped my faith grow in such a way that it has moved me to a different or better action. And it’s just been remarkable in that way. And it’s happened a lot. I’ve had some life-changing moments from being in “Savior of the World” — sorry, I’m going to get a little teary — some life-changing moments, some spectacular moments.
Jon Ryan Jensen: I think getting teary comes with the territory of this.
Troy Hanks: Yeah. Well, I cry when I open a new box of cereal.
Paul Walstad: That’s quite a moment.
Troy Hanks: Yeah, it’s something.
8:34
Jon Ryan Jensen: Karli, on the flip side, you haven’t done this a number of times. This is your first time. How is it for you to be cast in your first time ever in “Savior of the World” and to have the role playing the mother of the Savior?
Karli Welch: Oh, that’s a tough question, because it’s been every feeling that you can imagine. I didn’t even expect to be casted at all. I haven’t done theater in a very long time, and I’m a mom of three boys, and that’s really all that I do with my life, which is wonderful. It’s the best. And so anyway, being —
Jon Ryan Jensen: Not that we should diminish mothering three boys. That’s a huge task.
Karli Welch: It’s a huge task. I absolutely agree. And thank you.
9:20
Paul Walstad: Well, and what stood out at the auditions, she shows up and she’s sitting there and said, “Well, I haven’t done theater in a bit, but we have these three boys. And my husband said to me, thinking about ‘Savior of the World,’ you should go do this.” And as she said that, you’re sitting there thinking, “OK, this is a family that’s operating at a very, very functional way of saying, “OK, she is raising three boys. They are raising three boys. And in this moment, the husband says, ‘Why don’t you step away and try something new?’” And that stuck with us.
And then she couldn’t even make the callbacks. So we did all the callbacks, and Karli wasn’t there. And as we were looking, we had a casting meeting, which is about 14 people sitting around a table, and we had over 400 people audition, and you’re looking at all of these parts and trying to put names up there. And we’re being very prayerful and trying to think about these things. And we had a list of the people that we thought could play Mary, and I think we had it down to three or four. And Kenny Wiser, who’s the music director, said, “What about Karli Welch?” And we had seen her three weeks before for 20 minutes in an audition. And we looked back, and somebody goes, “Well, I don’t know. Who’s Karli Welch?”
We’re all digging through our files, and he said again later, “What about Karli Welch?” And so we grabbed her sheet, and we looked at her picture, and we’re like, “Yes.” Then we looked at our notes, and “Oh yeah, she has three boys, and her husband wants to take care of them. We should see her again.” So she came to the music director’s house the next night for about half an hour, and we did a little callback with her, and it was just obvious that she was the one to be cast. But it just reinforced in us that we’re not the only ones doing this work, that there is help and guidance that’s being offered, and we’re very grateful for it.
11:02
Jon Ryan Jensen: I love hearing, again, the background of what goes into that. It’s not just an automatic, it’s not necessarily just the skill portion of it. There’s a lot more to it, and leaning on inspiration from heaven for that.
So, Karli, have you seen some of that help you as you’ve dedicated — because I imagine there’s a lot of time that goes into learning a new role, especially when you hadn’t participated in it before. So how has that been with your family?
11:27
Karli Welch: Right, it’s been definitely an adventure for the family. My husband does travel quite often, and so we’ve had a whole community around us help take care of the kids. And there’s even been some Sundays where my boys go, “Hey, who’s babysitting us tonight?” And I’m like, “It’s me. I’m with you. It’s your mother.” But there’s been times where just trying to immerse myself in this role, where I have felt the words of the script that Mary says play in my life.
Like there was this one time where my son, he’s 4, he was really upset about something, and he threw something at the wall. And the line in the script is, “Oh, Joshua, it is good to wonder little about ourselves, but we need never wonder about the Lord.” And I ended up saying to him, “Oh, Rocky” — his name is Rocky — “it’s OK to get upset sometimes, but we need never throw things at the wall.” And I was like, “What am I saying?” I am having Mary in my mind constantly.
And honestly, what he did was he just ran over and hugged me, and I was like, “OK, maybe I should try to be a little more holy sometimes in my life at home.” So it’s definitely blessed myself and our family in that way a lot, being able to just feel the Spirit more in my life, truly, and to be able to have scripture in my mind more constantly.
12:59
Jon Ryan Jensen: I think that part of it, the scripture part of it. We had the “Book of Mormon Videos,” which just had their final episode drop. So now we have every episode of the “Book of Mormon Videos” we’re going to have. We’ve had the “Bible Videos” series that the Church has produced, and the Church put in a lot of work to make sure that those reflected pretty much what the verses of scripture said. There’s a little bit more freedom in “Savior of the World,” and especially when it comes to the music.
And I would love to hear from each of you more about the musical part of this and how the interplay is as you are singing, perhaps those — we hear that the angels sang, but we don’t know exactly what they sang and what that sounded like. There’s lots of different interpretations around Christmastime of that.
And I would love to know if there’s a specific musical number that stands out to you, either that you love to perform or that you love to hear as you’re participating in the performance. And I think with 20 years of being in it, I would love to hear first Paul, from you, on if there’s one that stands out to you.
14:04
Paul Walstad: Well, I haven’t been in it every year, but I did start in 2001 as an assistant director. And one of the numbers that sticks out to me is the shepherd song. And when the show was first created, there was this wonderful moment for the shepherds, and they would — oh, I don’t even dare try to sing it — but there was this moment where they would sing, “Here I am, Lord, lead me on,” and it was this kind of powerful moment where they would say, “We’ve seen the angel. Give us Thy will.”
And as the Brethren got involved, as this thing adapted, it felt like the shepherds being visited by an angel being given this message, right? “Fear not. And unto you is born this day,” and the song should reflect their feelings at the time and their preparation for that moment. So now the song, they come out and sing — what is it, Troy? I mean, how does that go?
Troy Hanks: “The Lord Is My Shepherd” one?
Paul Walstad: Yeah. Because they come out, and they’re talking as a family.
Troy Hanks: “The Lord is my — the Lord is my shepherd.” It’s very pretty.
15:03
Paul Walstad: So they’re talking as a family about what they’ve learned, and they are shepherds singing the song “The Lord Is My Shepherd,” and it’s a beautiful moment. You just sit there, and you think, “I want my family home evenings to be like that. I want there to be moments where I’m gathered with the people I love the most, that I’m closest to.” And we’re all singing the same thing: “Lead me on, Lord,” which was the original. It’s just a testimony that “the Lord is my shepherd; [and] I shall not want. ... Thy rod and thy staff they comfort me” (Psalm 23:1, 4). It’s straight from the scriptures, but it’s just beautifully put to music, and that touches me every night.
15:34
Jon Ryan Jensen: I love how you brought that up, because as I think about President Russell M. Nelson and his emphasis on home-centered, Church-supported learning, the angels didn’t appear on a Sunday in sacrament meeting to a congregation. They didn’t have sacrament meetings, right? But the point is it was to them fathers and sons and brothers and cousins, perhaps, who were out in the fields, working together as shepherds.
And so you have that angelic appearance in more of a family setting versus a congregational setting, and where we’re trying to get back to that as a Church. That is an interesting thought. I want my family home evening to be like that too, where those angels would feel comfortable coming and letting us know together that that important news is breaking.
16:16
Troy Hanks: My family gives me a hard time because I have yet to get through the production, especially near the end of the second act, when we sing “Jesus, Once of Humble Birth.” I, as Peter, I’m up on the mountain. I just have a really tough time singing that phrase “Once He suffered grief and pain,” and I just don’t make it through it. And frankly, if you pay any attention to Peter during that song, he’ll just be up there blubbering. But I don’t think I’ve ever, ever been able to sing that all the way through. I just haven’t been able to do it. It just touches me deeply that that hymn is included in the music, and it’s beautiful, and it’s at a beautiful time of the production, and that just always gets me.
But I also love “Build a House.” I love the house-building song. It is so fun and so joyous, and yet the doctrine taught there is so good. And I love standing on the colonnade and watching this house being constructed, and all the choreography going around it. It’s just so beautiful. And yet, that’s what we’re trying to do ourselves, is we’re trying to build a house with a foundation of the gospel and faith that cannot be shaken and that will last for generations. It’s just wondrous to me how they do that.
17:45
Jon Ryan Jensen: And whether a newlywed couple is moving into an apartment or a starter home, everyone is going through that process spiritually of “How do we build? This is something brand new that we’re trying to build for forever,” whether it’s the physical or spiritual house.
This is the first time that we’ve mentioned the colonnade, and for people who haven’t seen the play, I think it’s important for us to kind of set the scene of what this looks like when you’re looking at the stage, because it surprised me the first time that I saw it. But to see kind of this colonnade, and then you’ve got angels up above who are participants.
I know there was one time where I spent almost the entire play just watching the angels, and it felt very different than any play that I’d been to before. Is that unique in your world as you participate in the play?
18:34
Paul Walstad: Yeah, it’s pretty unique. When they were designing the set, the idea that heaven was intricately connected to the doings on earth, that the workings on earth were not disconnected or in any way removed from heaven. So there’s this kind of U-shaped colonnade that sits above seven portals, and the stones, even from the stage, are painted darker on the bottom. And then as the stonework goes up towards the colonnade where the angels are standing, it gets lighter and lighter.
And it’s interesting; in 2012, they actually filmed a Spanish version of this that was broadcast all over Central and South America. So you had the cameras and the boom camera. And after it was done and they’d shot a lot of things, one of the things that they went back and did was recorded a lot of images of the angels on the colonnade. And there was some discussion about how much that would actually make the final cut. And it turned out that that was something, like you were saying that you spent the whole time watching, that watching the people on the colonnade, simply watching what’s happening on the deck or the main stage, became a massive favorite for the people.
19:40
Jon Ryan Jensen: Again, for me, it’s going back to what President Nelson has talked about with the work that we do on both sides of the veil, and it’s a visual representation to me, when I think about it now, of really how close the spirit world can potentially be to us. It’s right there. They’re looking right down and watching exactly what’s happening in this moment. It’s not some distant, faraway place, and they come — but could it be that they are all right there all the time, wanting to be that involved with what’s happening in our lives? It was really beautiful.
20:11
Paul Walstad: Well, if you notice that the angels will actually leave the colonnade, the angel Gabriel will leave, go down a staircase, come through a veil and talk to Mary or talk to Zacharias in the temple, and then he goes right back up. And then you see them appearing, and then they’ll separate. So it’s an active connection.
20:27
Jon Ryan Jensen: Yeah. Love that. Karli, how about you on the musical side of things? Is there a piece that stands out to you?
Karli Welch: I feel the same way as Troy. It’s “Jesus, Once of Humble Birth” for me. That was the one that came to my head initially. All my lines are done, all my songs are done, and I just get to sit there, and I get to sit right by Mary’s younger sister — her real name is Ellie; she’s just adorable, and I love her to death — and we get to sit next to each other, and our backs are facing the audience, and we get to look at the apostles standing on the mountain. And it’s the most remarkable feeling for me, because we’re just humming. We’re just singing oohs to “Jesus, Once of Humble Birth.” And I get to listen and just enjoy.
And many times, I’m just sitting there closing my eyes. The audience can’t see, and I just get to be me. I just get to enjoy it. It’s my conversion story here. And I listen to them say the words from the scriptures about our Savior and about proclaiming His gospel. And it is so powerful to me. And then we turn around, and we go into singing the actual words to the hymn of “Jesus, Once of Humble Birth.” And every time, I mean, Paul has directed us there to say, “This is not you being Mary. This is your conversion story, how you feel about the Savior, how He has helped you and changed your life.” And every time it’s just the most wonderful, glorious moment for me. It’s just wonderful.
22:01
Jon Ryan Jensen: That’s great. I love this because most of the time when we’re singing that hymn, we’re in a sacrament meeting. We’re not in this setting where we’re seeing the story be told.
But one of the things that has stood out to me most recently that has come out of “Savior of the World” is the fact that as new hymns are coming out from the Church, one of the songs from “Savior of the World” is now included for Latter-day Saints to sing each week in their sacrament meetings if they choose, in “Come, Lord Jesus.”
Paul, having heard that song as much as you have, were you surprised when it was announced as one of the newest hymns?
22:38
Paul Walstad: I’ll be honest, I just — we were sitting in church, and my wife pays a lot more attention to these things. She was actually a stage manager on “Savior of the World” years ago, and we met doing this work together. So she stage manages our family and my life, of course. But we’ll sit in church, and all of a sudden they said, “We’re going to sing ‘Come, Lord Jesus.’” And I turned to her, and she goes, “It’s in the hymnbook now.” And you’d have thought that I would have known, but I just wept.
One of our assistant directors this year, Rod Elwood — and he’s a lighting designer, and he runs his own company and does a bunch of things — but he came up to work with us, and when I called him, and we’ve been friends for years, but I talked to him about working on the show, and I said, “Rod, what do you know about ‘Savior of the World’?” And he goes, “Well” — and he’s a bishop down in Provo, and he just said — “Well, many times each day, I think, ‘Come, Lord Jesus.’” And he just repeated that phrase.
And as we stand there, and it’s interesting; the directing team and the production staff, we’re in the back singing as much as anyone, quietly to ourselves, of course, but these words, “Come, Lord Jesus, to the manger. ... Come, Lord Jesus, to the wounded.” It’s an amazing thing. The ascension angel stands there and tells the apostles, “Why stand ye gazing up into heaven? this same Jesus, [whom ye saw go], shall ... come in like manner as ye have seen Him go” (Acts 1:11). And this idea that there’s this whole group of people now, us, who are waiting for the Savior to come, and that we’re pleading with Him to come. We’re not worried by His coming. We want to be ready. We want to be prepared. I think it’s beautiful.
Troy Hanks: It is beautiful.
24:13
Karli Welch: And that same line too, might I add, is repeated the beginning and the first act, all throughout the whole show. And it encompasses quite a beautiful theme of the whole show, and for our lives, of “Come, Lord Jesus, come.”
Jon Ryan Jensen: At every stage.
Karli Welch: At every stage, yeah.
24:31
Troy Hanks: The music of the production is truly, in my opinion, remarkable. I think of Karli gets to sing this beautiful song: “Ask God all your questions. Tell Him all your fears.” And I think about the rich doctrine that is taught in both the music and the lyrics of the music in this production. It’s beautiful, and it’s true, and we get to sing it several times per week. It’s just something.
25:03
Jon Ryan Jensen: I love that one. I also love Elisabeth, when she’s talking about: “We all have to weigh. Am I willing to give up this thing? What am I willing to give for the thing that I want most? And then what am I willing to give up for something that maybe I don’t want, because I know that God has something bigger in store for me?” So many great storylines in there.
I think one of the parts that I always enjoy when I take somebody for the first time is that people who’ve attended get to interact with those who are acting in the musical after its conclusion. Have you guys had any unique experiences with people who’ve attended? And is there anything that you could share from what people have shared with you following one night of the play?
25:49
Troy Hanks: A family favorite. We were out greeting the audience after, and that year, I was portraying both Gabriel and the Savior. And this young man, maybe 8 or 9 years old, was kind of staring at me, and I caught his eye, and so I went over and knelt down and said, “Hi, what’s your name?” And he said, “R-I-L-E-Y.” “Riley, that’s a great name, wow.” And he said, “What’s your name?” And I said, “Troy.” And I could tell that Riley had some special needs. I don’t know exactly what his condition was, but he had some special needs, and he had a special spirit.
And he said, “Do you know the guy who was the Savior?” I said, “Yes, I do.” And he said, “What’s his name?” And I said, “Troy.” And he kind of looked at me and hesitated for a second, and then he reached up — and I didn’t have a beard — and he reached up and felt my face. And as he was feeling my face, he said, “But where’s the — where’s your — where’s —” I said, “Well, the beard wasn’t real. It was to help me look more like Jesus. But you know, Riley, Jesus is not pretend.” And he looked at me, and he says, “Oh, I know. I know He’s real.”
I do not know what had happened with that young man in his life, but he had had an experience sometime to let him know that the Savior is real and was there for him whenever needed. Life-changing experience for me, and our whole family was there at that time, and we often speak about Riley and his great faith. It’s a wondrous thing.
27:46
Jon Ryan Jensen: It feels like a moment where you think you might have done something great to touch someone who watched, but instead he gave you back his testimony in a way that was impactful for you.
Troy Hanks: Without a doubt, yeah.
Jon Ryan Jensen: Karli, I know in your role — so, Katie Bastian is a friend of mine, and I know that she had some sacred experiences as well, because there are so many young women who come to the play who are looking up to Mary and finding in her such great faith as well.
Have you had any special experiences as you’ve performed and met with people afterward? Troy’s got us all crying.
28:24
Karli Welch: Thank you for sharing that. I’m trying to pull myself together here. Just last night, it was so sweet. Right when I come out the doors, we had a whole Young Women’s group come last night, and they were so beautiful and so sweet. And — I’m sorry I’m emotional — nothing crazy happened, but they just wanted to talk to Mary and wanted to share what they’re doing with their lives. And it was so interesting and fun to hear about them and how, “I do theater.”
And with one of the little girls, we just talked about how — one was really shy and one was very talkative. And with the shy girl, I was just able to just bear my testimony. I was like, “This is about the Savior, and it is a special production about Him.” And it was so sweet to see this little group of young women, and each night they just have these adoring eyes. And it was just fun to see that.
29:23
Jon Ryan Jensen: For each of you, I imagine that there’s more that goes into this personally than just learning lines, learning how to direct and handle different personalities, but spiritual preparation as well.
Paul, for you, as you do this each year, is there something special that you do in studying the scriptures or temple attendance that helps you be prepared for the spiritual aspect of “Savior of the World”?
29:51
Paul Walstad: Well, just to add to that, my first year working on this, I was told by the director there was a scene going on, and I was like, “Do you want me to go direct that?” I kind of wanted to prove myself. And something was going on, and I said, “Do you want me to take care of it? Do you want me to jump in?” And the director sent someone else, and I was kind of the third assistant director; they only needed two directors. But they brought me in, and the director turned to me, and he said, “Paul, lighting, blocking, all of that, anybody can do that. You’re here for you.” And that’s still challenging to me here 23 years later, and I think about that every year.
And I think I’ve actually been in the cast, and I portrayed Peter a couple of times. And as I get ready to come and do this, I get very close to my family. We have a lot of prayers, praying about who might be in the cast and how we might be prepared. Attending the temple with my wife is big. My daughter’s now 13, so we can go do — and my son’s, he’ll go into Young Men’s this next year, so we’re excited to go do baptisms with them as well.
But I’ll go back and read in the New Testament, go read the Old Testament lines of the prophets that we’re sharing. Then my wife and I will just listen to music. And again, she’s an old stage manager, and she knows where all the music is, and she’ll start playing it. So here it is July, and we’re listening to “Savior of the World” music and talking about our experiences. She’s a mom, we have five kids, and she desperately would love to come do this work, but like Karli’s husband, she is carrying the real load and allowing me to kind of come up and do this.
But I get a lot from her. As I go home at night, she goes, “Tell me about it.” And as I start talking about these experiences — much like we’re talking right now — the tears come, and the Spirit comes out, and little moments we share. And if I could go back to the other question, my niece came the other night, who I don’t see very often. She’s 11, and she was standing there in the little vestibule right outside the theater, and she had some tears in her eyes. And I turned to my sister and said, “What’s wrong?” And she said, “Well, she turned to me as Act 2 started and said, ‘Wait, they killed Jesus? Why would they do that? Why would they kill Jesus?’ And she just started crying.” And we just had a moment where I knelt down and told her He lives again and that we can see all the people that have died, that we can be with them. And she’s just weeping, this little girl.
And I’m looking at her, thinking, “This is the work, this moment right here.” The reason for the production is to do this work; it’s to cause questions. It’s to have people come and have an experience with the Spirit and to think about their own relationship with the Lord, and then start asking questions, and then the cast members become more than performers. There’s so much about going into who casts, who plays Mary and who plays these roles, than whether they can sing or act. The first thing that will tell them is, “Who you are matters so much more than what you can do.” And as you can see just in these two, but the whole cast is just filled of people who are on their own journey to the Lord. And this is a way that they have a voice. The production provides them a voice.
33:55
Jon Ryan Jensen: Going back to what you said about the director telling you that this is for you, that reminded me recently of being with Elder Ronald A. Rasband from the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles as he met with missionaries in the Dominican Republic and Barbados down in the Caribbean Area. And he told them, “The most important convert who you will have in your mission is yourself.” And for the exact same reason, becoming converted yourself to the Lord is the thing that is going to help you shine His light that much more for other people who you’re going to meet, who you’re going to talk to and teach, and this is a form of teaching about the Savior and the Savior’s life, similar to the missionary work that they’re doing each day, wherever they’re serving in the world.
33:36
Karli Welch: Paul has seen probably such a journey for me, and he’s been so helpful. When I first got casted, I was really shocked, and I started studying Luke 1 and Luke 2, portraying Mary, right? And I kept thinking, “OK, how can I be like Mary? How can I be like Mary?” And I got there, and Paul was like, “Stop, you’re not trying to be like Mary. It’s impossible.” I was like, “That’s very true.” He said, “You just need to be yourself.” And my thought was, “You don’t want me to be myself. I’m quirky and weird. That’s not going to work out. How is this going to happen?” And I ended up learning so much just from even just the script.
For example, Elisabeth just teaches Mary, “Depend on the Lord,” and Mary’s mother also teaches her the same thing. And those lines of depending on the Lord — “We’ll be depending on the Lord together” — has really been my theme for this musical and for life. There’s been multiple times in my life where I have felt that, “Am I good enough? Am I doing enough?” And being casted as this role, there was definitely an imposter syndrome going on, like, “Are you sure? Are you sure I’m supposed to be here? I think maybe I should go home.”
Paul Walstad: We were sure. We still are.
34:55
Karli Welch: And you’ve been so, so good at reassuring me. But that phrase of depending on the Lord has been so impactful for me, where I finally got out of my head as “Am I doing enough? Am I being good enough? Am I memorizing enough? Am I standing correctly?” Instead, it’s, “OK, I need to stop relying on myself. It’s time to rely on the Lord.”
And that moment happened, and you were there, when — I did not expect to be this emotional at this podcast today — but when Mary says the Magnificat, and it’s the scripture that she says, and I won’t say the whole thing, but she says goodbye to Elisabeth. Elisabeth is largely pregnant, and she’s about to go have her baby. And Mary’s like, “Wait, I came here to help you. Let me stay here.” And Elisabeth is like, “No, you need to go and tell Joseph that you are about to have the Son of God. You need to go tell Him.” And I can’t imagine the fear, maybe the imposter syndrome Mary had, I don’t know. I don’t want to put words in scripture there that don’t exist.
But as Elisabeth leaves, Mary’s standing there, and Elisabeth’s closing the curtains, preparing to depend on the Lord and have this child in her old age. And Mary just begins speaking, and she says, “And His mercy is on them that fear Him from generation to generation. He hath showed strength with His arm; He hath scattered the proud in the imagination of their hearts.” And it goes on and on, and she’s basically saying, “He hears me. He will always be there. He will never abandon me.”
And as I was able to share that moment and say those words that day, I just thought, “He is here. And this isn’t a huge thing.” I mean, this is a wonderful thing, but it’s not — I mean, it is life changing, but in this moment, I’m like, “I am depending on Him, and He is going to support me. He is going to give me His strength,” and He is doing that. So that was one of the most impactful moments for me.
37:03
Jon Ryan Jensen: I love that relationship between Mary and Elisabeth, because it does teach us a lot about spiritual mentorship, the things that we can learn as individuals from those who have been through something similar to ourselves but who also encourage us to be able to go do the thing; because they did it, and they know we can do it. And so that’s that moment where they usher us on to, “You can’t get stuck where you are. You now have to go do this for yourself and prove that you can do it, not just be here with me.” That’s a beautiful thought. I love that.
Troy, how about you? Is there anything special about your preparation? And having been through this — I really love that you’ve done this with your family before, so I would love to know if there’s something that you have found that, maybe even outside the play, is there something that you’ve done to prepare for the play that maybe has carried over into other parts of your family life so that you can be prepared for whatever you’re doing spiritually?
38:02
Troy Hanks: As different roles have been presented, I have found myself studying more in the scriptures and other good resources about the people I’m trying to portray. And I don’t think that you can study faith-building stories or accounts about these good people and not be changed. If I try to internalize what I’m learning, if I can share a personal story about it, I was portraying the Savior one year. And there are some specific directions that that person receives, because we want to be very scripturally correct in what we present.
Jon Ryan Jensen: This is not one where you want to ad-lib.
Troy Hanks: No. And I do remember one time that while portraying the Savior, I motioned to myself in some way, and all of the directing team came up after and said, “Please don’t motion to yourself. We don’t know that the Savior would ever do that.” And it made total sense.
That same year, I came out, and for whatever reason, I had stopped thinking about where I’m supposed to be and how the lines are supposed to go. And a beautiful man, Ken Eklof, was portraying Peter. I invited Peter to come and see the wounds in my hands. And I had kind of just forgotten about everything and was just trying to minister to the people on stage. And as Ken came up to me, he has these piercingly blue, beautiful eyes. And as I looked at him and was sharing this moment, the reflection of the Savior, because of the lighting and everything, reflected off of his eyes, and I saw myself, but really I saw the Savior in him. It was an amazing, an amazing time for me. And I realized that when I stop thinking about myself and think about others, the light of the Savior is reflected in me.
And I’ve had so many of these life-altering experiences that have been glorious and have helped. I hope that answers your question in that regard, but as I have studied these good people, I try to emulate their good traits and the good things that they did and the good people that they are. I so look forward to meeting them. I’m assuming a lot. You’ll probably recognize my little pile of ash just on the sidewalk, right? But I am so looking forward, if I get the chance, I would love to meet Cleopas and the Disciple. I want to meet Mahonri Moriancumer. I want to meet all of these good prophets. I would love to spend just a couple of minutes and say, “OK, Peter, tell me what was really going on in your head.” Because I have my own personal ideas of what a defender of the faith he was, and it may not match the social norms that we hear today. Same with Thomas, “doubting Thomas”; boy, he gets a bad rap. What a great, great man. I just want to meet all — and Mary and Elisabeth, and wow, I could just go on and on. It’s just amazing.
Jon Ryan Jensen: Yeah, judging apostles never seems like a good idea.
Troy Hanks: No, but I would love to hear from them, or from him, and just say, “This was just such a unique and neat experience for me. Please tell me how it was.”
41:42
Jon Ryan Jensen: You put that into some good words, because I felt that when Karli was talking about Mary, saying, “Well, I don’t actually know what she felt, and I don’t want to ascribe a feeling to her.” But it makes you wonder, and it makes you be excited for that day when you can ask her and then maybe say, “Did I do OK portraying you? Was that all right?”
Karli Welch: I’m too afraid to ask that question, but I hope someday I’ll have the opportunity.
Troy Hanks: And it probably won’t be important to us then, when we do get that. It may or may not, but it’ll be interesting.
42:14
Paul Walstad: Can I add to that? When you think about the script, so much of this is from scripture, but there are lines when Mary says, “Unto me, according to Thy will.” We don’t know how Mary would say that, but we know how we each say that in our own lives, where we say, “Lord, let Thy will be done and not ours.” Thomas has this moment where he says, “How can I be a witness of what I haven’t seen?” And then he’s prompted and reminded that he is a witness. Seeing the Lord is not the way that we know He exists. And in the script, this line where Peter talks to Thomas, how does that go?
Troy Hanks: “It’s not by flesh and blood that we know, but by what we feel. ... And one day, when you do see Him, you will not know any better than you know now that He lives, because you already feel in your heart.”
43:05
Paul Walstad: And Thomas takes that and then turns out, and he has this beautiful song — we were talking about music — and he says, “If I can’t hear His words, then I will speak them. If I can’t feel His touch, His touch I’ll give. And I think that’s the state that all of us are in. When we can feel the Spirit and when we take the time and the preparation to be someone who is seeking the Lord in all areas of our life, then the small little moments of our lives become big, can become big in other people.
In fact, as you talk about the reflection of the Savior, that we can be someone who is an example of the believers. We can be someone who is a disciple of Christ, and others can see that in us, even if we’re not in the moment speaking scripture or we’re just doing our job. The shepherds were just doing their job, and the angels came, but they were doing their job in a way that was holy, in a way that was prepared. They were prepared for that. And the script tries to reflect that so that it becomes relevant to people today who can sit out there and say, “Well, how can I be a witness of what I haven’t seen?” Well, you can, because you already feel. You can speak His words, and you can give His touch, and then you can prepare for the day where, like Thomas, he did see the Savior. And we can prepare for that day that we all know will come, when we will see Him.
So the message of the show is for today’s audience in that way. There’s so many depictions, other shows out there, that are using the Bible and using the scripture to do this, and we’ve had people of many faiths come to “Savior of the World,” and what they say is, “Thank you for grounding this in the Bible, and thank you for grounding it in the way that is relevant to all of us,” because the Savior is universal.
44:49
Jon Ryan Jensen: And that script and all of the music is all available on the Church’s website. You don’t have to come to the Conference Center Theater to watch this every December. I was actually in a stake where we performed this. And other stakes around the world have done that as well. So on music.ChurchofJesusChrist.org, people can go, or searching “Savior of the World” on the Church website, they can go find it, and all the music is there to download, both sheet music if they want to sing it, and the audio tracks if they want to listen to it as well.
And for those who still want to see the play this year, the play takes place 7:30 every night, and there are still some tickets available. So there’s a chance that if you go, you can be in the standby line and still get in to see the play at the Conference Center Theater, which is on the west side of the Conference Center, for those who haven’t been there before, and it really is a great production and worth going to see. And there’s a 2 p.m. matinee on Saturdays as well?
Paul Walstad: Yeah, so it’s Tuesday through Saturday, and then with a matinee on Saturday as well.
45:45
Jon Ryan Jensen: OK. Love that. Well, we have a tradition here on the Church News podcast where we like to give our guests the final word. And so my final question for each of you is: What do you know now? How has your testimony grown about the Savior by participating in the production of “Savior of the World”? Troy, we’ll start with you, go to Karli and then finish with Paul.
46:06
Troy Hanks: I hope that my thoughts make any sort of sense at this point. I’ve always been a believer. I think I was blessed to believe. I was taught by goodly parents about the gospel. We’ve all had our challenges, and I’ve had my challenges, as is normal, I guess, this temporal. But being in this production has helped me realize the reality of the plan and the infinite nature of us as people and also of the plan, that Christ really did come and that He suffered and died, but even more importantly, He now lives for each of us. His work and His glory is to bring us to Him to help us become like Him.
My testimony of Him and of the gospel and of the plan and especially of the love of our Father in Heaven has just grown immensely. It has taken the little seed that I have, or was given, and has taken it, and it has blossomed into something better. Now, I am so far from perfect; I’m just very far from perfect. But every day, if I can be just a little bit better, if I can be just a little bit more like Mary or Elisabeth or Peter or the Savior, just a little bit better. That is the changing that has happened to me, and it has been a great blessing not only in my life but in the life of my children and the life, in many ways, of our extended family.
And it came at a time when it was greatly needed, and it has just built upon that every time that we’ve been involved. It’s been a great blessing. The great thing is we get to testify three times a week of these things and just tell a story that is real and true, and we get to do it with lines that are beautifully written, with lyrics and music that was inspired. You just can’t put a price on that. That is just the coolest thing ever, and we love doing it. But the real thing is that He lives, He lives, He lives. And I’ll just offer that in the name of Jesus Christ, the sacred name of Jesus Christ, amen.
48:52
Karli Welch: I hope I can gather my thoughts correctly too. During rehearsals with angel Gabriel to Mary, it was our first time running through this, and I love that scene because Mary gets to respond and see an angel and just respond to him, and he shares this glorious message. And we were with one of the directors, Steve, and he said, after we went through it once, he said, “Let’s try that again.” He said, “Let’s try that where — think about this. This is an angel who was given this assignment to share the most exciting news to Mary. And guess what? Maybe they were related, and maybe he’s been watching her her whole life and her ancestors and has been so excited for this moment with Mary to finally share that Christ is coming.”
And it touched me so much, because I know that God knows me, God knows you, and He is so organized and detailed in my life and in your life and in Mary’s life. I know that, speaking of the colonnade, those angels that are around there watching over us, it’s like angel Gabriel watching over to Mary and so excited to share that assignment with her finally. Maybe she was his posterity, some way, I don’t know. But I feel that in my life. I feel those times where I have been just struggling, and I have felt angels around me, and I know that God has sent them there, and I know that God listens and that He knows my concerns.
A few years ago, we had a hard time getting pregnant with our third, did all the medications that you could do, all the fertility things, and we relied so much on — I did, at least — on so much on myself, so much on the medicine, which is a wonderful blessing, of course. And finally, there was a moment where we just had to put it all away, and we had to ask God, “Is there another child up there? Is that in our plan?” And a few months later, we had to change some things around in our lives. That was a big life change for us. And I found out I was pregnant, and I just knew in that moment that God heard me, and I knew in that moment that He sent angels around me to comfort me, to lift me up.
And so it goes back again to what Elisabeth is saying, is we can depend on the Lord. When we truly depend on the Lord, then we will be guided, and we will do those things. We will handle those struggles in our lives at such a new level, with such a power, the strength of His arm. So my testimony is that I know that God hears us, and even when we feel the most darkness in our lives or disconnect, He’s there, and we just have to try and raise our voices and reach out to Him, and He will answer us. And I say that in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
52:21
Paul Walstad: I started doing theater, I don’t know, 30 years ago, and I didn’t know why. I was 25. And the first theater I did was in Nauvoo. I was one of the young performing missionaries, and I was there a couple of days, and I thought, “This is what I want to do the rest of my life.” And of course, that’s not a possibility. But I loved feeling that what was inside of me could come out in a way that would also share the story that meant the most to me. And I love Nauvoo. My parents are converts, and my dad, once he’s in, he’s 100% in. So they used to drive us out to Nauvoo, and we’d walk through the fields.
But here we were doing all of these different type of theater, and then coming to do “Savior of the World.” And I think what I would say, what I know now, is that all of us are His children, and we all have these talents. And sometimes we think, as we’ve done theater or we’ve been trained a certain way, that those talents might matter more than others, but that’s just because it’s our own life, right? We look at our life, and we hope that that matters.
But you sit in a room of people, of mothers, of sisters and daughters and sons and husbands, some of whom have very limited theatrical background, but they do the most impactful acting. They do the most impactful performance because they are people who, in their own life, are the Marys and the Josephs and the Peters; the mothers that hold their children alone at night. Many times as a husband, I was sleeping, and my wife is like a Mary. And I believe that in our lives, the most important acting is what we do with our families and what we do to develop our relationship with the Lord.
Prophet David O. McKay said that no success “can compensate for failure in the home.” And I recognize that in this production of “Savior of the World,” we get an opportunity to come and demonstrate who we are by, like Troy had mentioned, a script, and we’ve talked about the music. But I know that the Lord is in each of our lives, in every moment of those lives. And as Act 1 ends, and Mary and Joseph are sitting in the manger, and the shepherds have come in, and we’d send the children down from the colonnade, and they circled the manger. It’s a beautiful moment. It’s worth coming to see the show just for the end of Act 1.
And you look out there, and you see those children, and you think, “Maybe that’s how the Lord sees me, and maybe when I come to Him, I will be like a little child just wanting to be near Him. And all the little inconsistencies in my life, or all the little moments of my life that I might struggle with, can disappear in that endeavor to be near Him and to serve Him.” And I know that that’s a possibility, and it gives me faith and hope as a father and as a husband, that I will continue to grow brighter and brighter until the perfect day, that I can become someone who could stand before the Savior like a little child and love Him and be loved by Him. And I feel that every night.
And I’m grateful for this production, that it has helped remind me of all of those things that I’ve known. But I’m a visual person that way, so when I see it, it reflects my soul, just enlarges and is reminded of all that I want and desire in the world, which is to see Him again. And I know He lives, and I’ve known that, I think, all of my life, as Troy said, but I’m grateful for the constant reminder that comes to me as I watch these people that I love and in this cast bear that testimony every night. And I will leave that with you in the name of Jesus Christ, amen.
56:23
Jon Ryan Jensen: Thank you for listening to the Church News podcast. I’m your host, Church News editor Jon Ryan Jensen. I hope you learned something today about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and had your faith in the Savior increase by looking through the Church News window as a living record of the Restoration. Please subscribe, rate and review this podcast so it can be accessible to more people. And if you enjoyed the messages we shared today, please share the podcast with others. Thanks to our guests; to my producer, KellieAnn Halvorsen; and to others who make this podcast possible. Join us every week for a new episode. Find us on your favorite podcasting channels or with other news and updates about the Church on TheChurchNews.com or on the Church News app.
