In March 2024, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints acquired the Kirtland Temple and other historic buildings and artifacts. A new website now offers information and resources about visiting and learning about Historic Kirtland and the remarkable events of early Church history that occurred there.
This episode of the Church News podcast explores Kirtland, Ohio, with historian Karl Ricks Anderson, who has researched, presented on and lived at this important location. He focuses on the area’s spiritual significance and how learning about the city’s historic events can build faith in Jesus Christ and His restored Church and gospel.
Listen to this episode of the Church News podcast on Apple Podcasts, Amazon, Spotify, bookshelf PLUS, YouTube or wherever you get podcasts.
Transcript:
Karl Ricks Anderson: When one talks about the importance of Kirtland, I think the events of the unfolding of God’s Church, from the beginning, all of that was planned out. And the date set for the appearance of the Savior, Moses, Elias and Elijah to be on April 3 of 1836. And in a sense, Kirtland is a pinnacle in our dispensation, because before they could come, we had to have the Church formed. We had to have the Book of Mormon. We had to have the priesthoods restored. And everything since Kirtland has been implementing those keys that came. And that it is the Lord’s work. It is a privilege for us to work in helping build the kingdom.
1:07
Jon Ryan Jensen: This is Jon Ryan Jensen, editor of the Church News. Welcome to the Church News podcast. Today, we are taking you on a journey of connection as we discuss news and events of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
In early 2025, The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints launched a new website offering information and resources for those interested in learning about and potentially visiting historic Kirtland as well as other historic sites in Ohio. These new resources were made available one year after the Church acquired the Kirtland Temple and other historic buildings and artifacts in the area in an effort to protect, preserve and celebrate the remarkable events of Church history that occurred there from 1831 to 1838.
This spiritual period included appearances by the Savior and other heavenly messengers, the dedication of the first temple in this dispensation, the reception of the majority of revelations recorded in Doctrine and Covenants, and other significant events early in the Restoration of the Church.
On this episode of the Church News podcast, we explore Kirtland with historian Karl Ricks Anderson, who has researched and presented extensively on this important location, in addition to living there for nearly 50 years.
Welcome, Karl, to the Church News podcast.
Karl Ricks Anderson: Thank you.
2:22
Jon Ryan Jensen: We’re excited to talk with you today. This is a period of time that was of great importance in the early days of the Restoration of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, and you lived there for 50 years.
Can you talk about, maybe to start us off, what the circumstances were that led you to live there, and what initially sparked your personal interest in Kirtland’s role in Church history and your life’s work?
2:46
Karl Ricks Anderson: The circumstances that brought us to Kirtland, I think, were divinely led. I grew up in Utah but always had an interest in Church history. I had an older brother who taught at Brigham Young University, was a historian, and he tried to work with me to have me understand what it would take, and he had a lot of research that he shared. And I graduated with an MBA from University of Utah, and a company came on campus and interviewed potential employees.
And I joined a company, and they put me in four locations in the first year to train me in their management style. And the first division that I worked for was near Nauvoo, and so we had plenty of opportunity to visit there. The second one was near Kirtland, within just a few miles, and the third one was in Ithaca, New York. And one of our quorum projects was to put up chairs for the pageant at the Hill Cumorah.
4:01
Jon Ryan Jensen: So your first three professional assignments were in places of just small interest to you personally.
Karl Ricks Anderson: And you had to not be very smart to not put that together that the Lord may have had a hand in that. And then my permanent assignment was near Cleveland, and within about 25 minutes from Kirtland, and so I immediately went to Kirtland. And from then, it seemed inseparable from us to be in Kirtland.
4:32
Jon Ryan Jensen: I love hearing — we hear repeatedly when we do these interviews for the Church News podcast how the Lord has helped people get to the places where they need to be in order to accomplish the things that Heavenly Father needs them to accomplish. And hearing your story, like you said, it’s hard to look back at that and think that the Lord didn’t have a role in where He put you.
Karl Ricks Anderson: That’s right.
Jon Ryan Jensen: So, I would be interested to hear, then, your perspective. You land there in Kirtland. After everything that you’ve seen there, why do you feel that that period has been so important? And why was that area so important to the Church and its members?
5:09
Karl Ricks Anderson: When one talks about the importance of Kirtland, Kirtland was foreseen in our premortal lives, I’m convinced. I think the events of the unfolding of God’s Church, from the beginning, all of that was planned out. Elder Neal A. Maxwell illustrated that by saying that the Bethlehem star that would shine at the Savior’s birth was put in orbit eons ago so that it would appear on the night of His birth. Kirtland was likewise, I think, foreseen, and the date set for the appearance of the Savior, Moses, Elias and Elijah to be on April 3 of 1836.
In the Old Testament, Malachi states that “the Lord, whom ye seek, [will] suddenly come to His temple” as a prophecy (Malachi 3:1). It’s sung as an aria in the Messiah productions that we hear. And then he said that Elijah would return (see Malachi 4:5). So, those two statements by Malachi were fulfilled in Kirtland, and the date even was certain, because the Jewish world has known that Elijah would come at Passover, and they set a meal and open a door for him to come in and sit at the table. So we know that it was to be at Passover. One of the Jewish most sacred hymns is, “May the Messiah come with Elijah.” So we know there’s a tradition that Christ will come with Elijah.
And then we learn, if we say we know it’ll be Passover, we know it was to be in Kirtland, because in the Doctrine and Covenants, when Sidney Rigdon was converted, the Lord said that he had been “sent forth, even as John, to prepare the way [for] me” — in other words, Christ — “and ... Elijah [to] come, [but] thou knewest it not” (Doctrine and Covenants 35:4). So we know that it’s going to be in Kirtland, because that’s where Sidney Rigdon came, that area, to prepare for that.
And then in section 64, the Lord said that “I ... will [prepare] a strong hold in ... Kirtland, for the space of five years” (verse 21). So we know it’s to be at Passover. We know it’s to be at Kirtland. We know it’s to be in 1836. And that was April the 3rd of 1836. All of those came together, as well as it being a Sabbath and Easter, Passover.
And so, the Lord had all of this planned out, including the temple. And in a sense, Kirtland is a pinnacle in our dispensation, because before they could come, we had to have the Church formed. We had to have the Book of Mormon. We had to have the priesthood restored. So everything that had happened in Pennsylvania and in New York had to happen while we’re leading up to receiving the keys. And then the keys come, and everything since Kirtland has been implementing those keys that came. So, everything builds up to Kirtland, everything after implements the keys.
And President Nelson, of course, his whole ministry has been gathering Israel from both sides of the veil. And after we purchased the temple, he says that that was in Kirtland, those keys came that enabled the mission of the Church to gather from both sides of the veil. The Lord didn’t leave us in New York but moved us to Kirtland, and at that point, the Church was young, and in Kirtland, the Lord put all of the organization in place. In fact, if we look at the organization today, it’s exactly what was put together in Kirtland — the first bishop, first stake president, first high councilor, first patriarch, the multiple quorums of the Seventy, the Quorum of the Twelve, First Presidency.
And that really is where the doctrine was formulated, because most of the — well, nearly half of the Doctrine and Covenants — was given there. But when you look at the teachings from the Lord, they all went from Kirtland to the world, because we didn’t have our first Doctrine and Covenants until we got to Kirtland.
10:12
Jon Ryan Jensen: Yeah, you look back at that time in Palmyra, that’s where you have, in that area, that’s where Joseph Smith grows up. We learn about the First Vision, the translation of the Book of Mormon and the establishing of the Church in 1830. But yeah, by 1831, there they are in Kirtland, and that’s where the beginning of Doctrine and Covenants, which we study this year, so much of that took place.
10:31
Karl Ricks Anderson: Well, and then the schooling period, we had the School of the Prophets put together there. We had the main testimonies of the people from — Joseph Smith said it was a Pentecostal period; in other words, spiritual manifestations. And we had more spiritual manifestations in Kirtland than any other period in our Church history.
10:58
Jon Ryan Jensen: I want to talk about some of those. But I do want to know for you, personally, did you have family ties to that period of time as well?
Karl Ricks Anderson: Actually, no. And because of what we’ve been called on to do in Kirtland, you’d think that we would have. But one of the general authorities visiting said that he felt the Lord didn’t want somebody who had eyes, but somebody who could be objective and look at all of the Saints and their sacrifices and the development, regardless of who was involved.
11:33
Jon Ryan Jensen: So you weren’t swayed by the names.
Karl Ricks Anderson: Right, right.
Jon Ryan Jensen: What are some of those most pivotal events? Because there are a lot of them. What are some of the most pivotal events, in your opinion, in Kirtland that Latter-day Saints should understand, and why?
11:47
Karl Ricks Anderson: Well, for example, more of the Savior’s direct words went to the world from Kirtland more than anywhere in any other period in the history of the world. More of His direct words than in the New Testament or the Bible or any of our other scriptures. And so, you’ve got the Savior speaking. I was able to identify the Savior’s voice and words in teaching the whole plan of salvation during those years and the first edition of the Doctrine and Covenants that went from Kirtland. I was able to establish at least 13 first-person testimonies the Savior gave of Himself to the Saints, which are of great worth to the whole world.
Twenty-three men I’ve been able to document saw the Savior in Kirtland, and that is just the tip of the iceberg. George Q. Cannon, a counselor in the First Presidency in the late 1800s, said that hundreds had seen the Savior, but just that we can firmly document 23. Five men saw the Father and the Son together in Kirtland, and Joseph Smith had 11 visions of the Savior in Kirtland. Just think — it’s overwhelming if the world really understood here is a Savior organizing, putting together the Church, the doctrines, and it’s the Savior’s work. It’s the Savior’s Church.
13:31
Jon Ryan Jensen: Yeah, it’s not a time period when Joseph Smith is just saying, “Hey, here’s how I think this should look. Here’s what I think I should do as the leader of this Church.” So much of Doctrine and Covenants is Him admitting, “I don’t know the answer to this question,” or “I wonder how this needs to happen today,” and then the process of him and others going to the temple or kneeling in prayer somewhere so that they can get those revelations.
14:01
Karl Ricks Anderson: Yeah. The miracle of the work is that you had highly intelligent people — yes, the Church was put together mainly from farmers and a working class, but we had intellectuals who followed Joseph. And whether you were an intellectual, part of the working class, whatever category, they gave everything they had to establish a Church. They suffered persecution. They knew it was the Savior’s Church and work, or they wouldn’t have gone through all of the persecution. They literally sacrificed everything going from state to state, following Joseph. And here were men who could have said to Joseph, as he taught doctrine given to him by the Savior, men could have said, “This doesn’t make sense,” but they didn’t. They recognized that it was the Savior and not Joseph Smith speaking.
15:03
Jon Ryan Jensen: I wonder, as you read those stories and hear those first-person accounts, do you think that it was any easier for individuals to accept that those revelations were coming from the Savior at that point than it is for individuals today who are seeking to know how the Savior guides His Church 200 years after those moments?
15:28
Karl Ricks Anderson: My feeling about that is that what separates people in the Church and separated them at that time is that they looked at it in faith. They knew the Savior had appeared. They knew people who the Savior had appeared to. They heard their testimonies. They knew it was the work of the Lord. But when a doctrine or a circumstance came up, they didn’t let it sway them. They just said, “I will accept it in faith. I may not understand it, but I’ll accept it.” And as they accepted, their testimonies grew, they worked through it.
The Three Witnesses are probably the best example of that. Here were men who saw the angel Moroni, saw the plates. Intellectually, they knew it was right, but when circumstances came that challenged them, they allowed themselves to be defeated, rather than say, “Yes, I know it’s the work of the Lord, but I’ll have faith in this doctrine. I’ll have faith that the Lord wants us to leave our property. Even if we can’t sell it, we’ll walk away, we’ll sacrifice all that we have because it’s the work of the Lord,” and their faith was rewarded.
16:48
Jon Ryan Jensen: I wonder so frequently as we talk about individuals who have what is currently described as a crisis of faith, and they’re trying to decide, “Will this question keep me from attending church, partaking of the sacrament, going to the temple?” And knowing that those challenges have existed from the very beginning — even when you knew someone personally who had seen the Savior or were able to hear directly from Joseph Smith after those experiences — it’s actually, for me, really comforting to know that everyone has always had those challenges of faith, and we all have to rely on the same inspiration from the same Holy Ghost to receive a confirmation that these things are true.
17:31
Karl Ricks Anderson: A good example of that is the Prophet’s brother William. I mean, good on William; we love him. But as they’re preparing for the dedication of the temple, the Lord had commanded him to call what he called the “solemn assembly.” And Joseph promised that those who prepared themselves, prepared their lives, would see the Savior in the solemn assembly. And so, he was working with them, but one of the requirements was they couldn’t even look to find fault in others, or they wouldn’t be prepared to see the Savior in the solemn assembly.
18:12
Jon Ryan Jensen: That sounds so similar to what President Russell M. Nelson is saying today, where he’s asking us to not find fault with one another and to build bridges of understanding with those who we come in contact with. He doesn’t say it as directly there with that same promise, but prophetic word is the same.
18:29
Karl Ricks Anderson: Well, if we went in for a temple recommend interview and we’re asked, “Do you find fault in anyone else,” our temples would be empty. But William, now, is struggling. And so one day, he just said, “Hey, I give up.” He went to Joseph, he said, “This is too hard. I can’t do it.” And he said, “And my health isn’t that good.” In other words, “My dog ate my homework.” A minor thing, but he just said — well, Joseph of course encouraged him, and he did it, but it was, for them, difficult. And those who had faith just hung in there and took step by step. Those who didn’t have faith let it stand in their way.
19:20
Jon Ryan Jensen: Joseph had so many of those kinds of opportunities where those close to him were trying to make those decisions and navigate the building of their own faith. And that really is a great example, as I currently am a parent of four teenagers and want them to know and believe and have those experiences themselves, but yet, I can’t just hand that over to them. They have to go through their own experiences as well.
I imagine that you, having been there, again, for 50 years, had a unique progression of your testimony as well. How has your understanding and your perspective on Kirtland’s significance and those events deepened or changed over time?
19:59
Karl Ricks Anderson: Well, for me, it was a process — and, I think, the same process for every member of the Church — and that was to be able to look at historical events and not make a judgment, “Was that right or not?” Right now, one of the end things is to dig out all I can on Joseph Smith and say, “How could he be a Prophet?” instead of saying, “In spite of those things, he was a Prophet.” There are no perfect people.
And Elder Jeffrey Holland said that there are people who are in leadership positions, in other positions, and they’re not perfect. And he said the Lord is able to look at that and work through them, and He has learned to deal with it, so so should we. And that’s really it. None of them were perfect. But if you go after all of the negative things, you’re going to come out with negative conclusions. And that’s one of the problems. You look for the positive; the negative you put on the shelf, because you know that the Lord selected Joseph Smith, He worked through him, and the Lord dealt with imperfection, and so should we.
21:24
Jon Ryan Jensen: And we have many examples throughout Doctrine and Covenants of times when perhaps the Lord called someone to repentance, and sometimes we see that they did repent, and sometimes we see that they didn’t. There are always going to be many more instances that we don’t know about than those that were recorded, though, thankfully in my case.
21:45
Karl Ricks Anderson: Well actually, the Lord’s favorite target was Joseph Smith, because he was constantly calling him to repentance. And in section 95 with the building of the temple, the Lord started off by saying, “[You’ve committed] a very grievous sin” (verse 3). And I’m sure Joseph says, “Well, what was it this time, Lord? Help me.”
22:10
Jon Ryan Jensen: I love that you bring this up, though. Just yesterday, my daughter, my 12-year-old daughter, plays basketball. She came home from a really rough practice and felt like the coach had been picking on her for making a certain mistake that was causing the team not to be able to run a play correctly. And one of the things I said to her was, “Well, sometimes the coach needs to choose someone on the team to make an example out of so that everyone on the team avoids making that mistake.”
Do you think that perhaps that’s one of the reasons why we have so many of those records of Joseph Smith being called to repentance, is so we all have that one example of what to avoid and how to get right with the Lord?
22:48
Karl Ricks Anderson: Yeah, I think we all deal — whether it’s in school, whether it’s in work or in personal lives — we’re all striving for perfection, but none of us have made it, and yet that’s the growth. And for me in Kirtland, that was really the growth, as I learned and as I learned to put things to the side and say, “Well, one day I’ll understand it, but I know the Lord spoke to Joseph Smith. He led him. He created the opportunities for growth in the Church.” The Lord ran it. Joseph Smith, being the Prophet, was the one that had to deal with it.
But like when the first missionaries went to England from Kirtland, the Lord opened the way. He opened the way. They found this United Brethren group in England who had separated from all other churches, looking for the Restoration. And the Lord took Wilfred Woodruff, put him down there. And as great as those early missionaries were, the Lord had opened up the way for them, and that’s how the Church has grown. It’s the Lord leading it, and that’s, to me, what I had to have in place before I could start to do what I was called to do.
24:13
Jon Ryan Jensen: And so, you’re there during an extended period of time, which pretty much amounts to a quarter of the Church’s history since the Restoration. Could you share maybe one of the most memorable experiences that you’ve had from Kirtland, perhaps one that involves — recently, we had the Church’s acquisition of the temple and the importance of building relationships with other faiths, like Community of Christ, as the Church returned to Kirtland.
What do you see as some of the biggest triumphs and challenges of these 50 years?
24:41
Karl Ricks Anderson: Well, if we look at the restoration of Kirtland, my experience was that the Lord opened up each step. And one morning, I got up and was prompted that we needed to inquire about the status of the Johnson Inn. That was one of the key buildings in early Kirtland. And I was prompted to call the real estate agent that we had used on some of the property acquisitions. And by the way, each one of those, the Lord opened an avenue to get it. And I just was blessed to be part of each one of those and see it.
But I called our real estate agent, and I said, “We need to know the status of that property.” And he asked why, and I just said, “Well, I just felt that.” And he said, “If I can get time, I’ll do that, and I’ll call you this afternoon.” He called me in the afternoon, and he said, “The lease had come up, and they’d renegotiated a new lease, and I found the owner, and he, on his desk, he had the new lease for seven years that was being given, and his attorneys had reviewed it.” He was going to sign it that day. But he said, “If you have a buyer, I’d rather sell it than rent it.” And he said, “But I need to know right away.”
26:12
Jon Ryan Jensen: And the Church buys it. And so it goes through another — I would say renovation process, but it actually had a different fate.
Karl Ricks Anderson: Yes. Actually, there was a fire. And so the building, original building, had collapsed. So they salvaged what they could, reduced the size. And that’s — the first Quorum of the Twelve left on their mission from there. It’s where the first printing operation occurred in Kirtland. First patriarchal blessings were given there. A very significant structure. And so, we just had to rebuild, using the photos as a guide.
26:50
Jon Ryan Jensen: And so that reconstruction, that still took a couple of decades after that purchase in the ’80s. That was done in the early 2000s right?
Karl Ricks Anderson: Yes. By the time we had it fully done, it was in the early 2000s because all the sites were dedicated by President Hinckley in 2003.
27:10
Jon Ryan Jensen: So, President Gordon B. Hinckley comes and dedicates that in 2003.
Karl Ricks Anderson: Along with all the other properties — visitors’ center, other structures. The Whitney home was rebuilt, restored; it was pretty much what it was, but it was a bar. And so, the story behind it is the Lord gave the prompting, “You’ve got to inquire about the status,” and here the owner would have signed that document that day, had that prompting not come. And that is illustrative of the acquisition of really all of the properties.
27:54
Jon Ryan Jensen: The Lord is always involved in that level of detail.
Karl Ricks Anderson: Yes.
Jon Ryan Jensen: And so that time, so by 2003, that’s halfway through-ish your time out there. What did it mean to you personally to see the Church establish again the Kirtland Village?
28:11
Karl Ricks Anderson: There’s a real sense of gratitude for having been involved. Because, like the early Saints, no one’s perfect. The Lord didn’t take with me, didn’t take an individual who should have been considered for that, but somehow He did, and I’m just grateful to have been a part of that. But the thing that is most gratifying is it’s not the buildings, it’s not the beauty of the Restoration.
Hyrum Smith, in the early days of the Church, said that Kirtland would be polished and refined after many years would pass away, and that polishing and refining is — it’s satisfaction, but that isn’t the real accomplishment, I think. It’s more to see the Church say, “Kirtland is important.” Elder M. Russell Ballard made the statement that we may yet find out that Kirtland is our most important Church history site. And to me, it’s seen people saying, “I want to go to Kirtland. I never realized all that happened there.” And yes, Kirtland.
29:32
Jon Ryan Jensen: I know that President M. Russell Ballard, that was one of the final places where he was able to bear his testimony. And that testimony was recorded and shared during RootsTech two years ago. And he definitely had a very tender spot in his heart for the revelations that were received there. And it seemed like how important he perceived that location was to the Lord and the restoring of His Church.
29:56
Karl Ricks Anderson: Right. So, the key players in all of this were Brethren who were following inspiration of the Lord. And he had removed the curse, he had felt prompted to do so. And Elder Ballard, much the same way. President Hinckley was very much supportive because he felt that. And it’s just been wonderful to work with people who knew what the Lord wanted to have happen.
30:25
Jon Ryan Jensen: And so you saw the Lord’s hand in the inspiration that those Church leaders received and promptings that were received in calling a real estate agent. But also, there’s a part of this that involves Community of Christ, their members and their leaders, and the sense of duty that they felt for some of the preservation of these buildings, knowing what had happened there as well.
Can you describe, perhaps, some of the relationship between The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and Community of Christ?
30:57
Karl Ricks Anderson: Kirtland was the ideal location to develop that relationship, because during the Kirtland years, we were one Church. When we get to Nauvoo, that’s when things broke apart. After Brigham Young left, then those that remained in Nauvoo kind of got behind the movement to get Joseph Smith III to take the remaining people and lead them. So Nauvoo is kind of where it split apart. In Kirtland, our history was essentially the same. So, we were united. There were no divisions of that kind between the two of us.
So, once we started to develop Kirtland, we formed a ward there. It took to normal progress because we didn’t have a building there, and we didn’t want to feel threatened, have them feel threatened that here we were coming back. And so as stake president, I initiated a policy of us meeting quarterly for breakfast, the leaders of our Church and their leaders, getting to know each other, handling issues. At that time, members of our Church would come through and offensively talk about how it was our temple and not theirs, and a whole spade of things that just —
Jon Ryan Jensen: Challenging for you to be there permanently in trying to build that relationship and have some passing through.
32:31
Karl Ricks Anderson: Yeah. And so, we changed our message and the visitors’ centers as they grew, so that when our members came through, we’d say, “When you go to the temple, realize that they own the temple, and we’re guests and are grateful for their preserving the temple.” And then meeting with their leaders quarterly gave us an opportunity to get to know them. And so, they weren’t major issues, each of these things. And so, we did that. And now, we didn’t have the sites fully developed until 2003, and then another 20 years to where we were able to purchase the temple. But it was a period of just building relationships and trust.
33:21
Jon Ryan Jensen: Reminds me of a portion of that period when President Gordon B. Hinckley was the President of the Church, and he counseled members, when talking with those who are not members of our faith, to take the good that they have and to add upon it. And it sounds like that was part of this endeavor that you were in, was making sure that you understood the common good that you had between each other of the gospel.
“To these we say in a spirit of love, bring with you all that you have of good and truth which you have received from whatever source, and come and let us see if we may add to it.”
— President Gordon B. Hinckley, October 2002 general conference
So, I want to come to present day. It was just over a year ago when Community of Christ and The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints announced that there would be a changing of the guard, a little bit, and the Church announced that it was acquiring the Kirtland Temple.
What feelings did you have then, and as you’ve thought about it since then, what do you think this means now, as far as that polishing process for Kirtland?
34:18
Karl Ricks Anderson: Personally, when I heard the news, I was stunned, and I thought, “Well, I’m so happy; and yet, on the other side, this will be a blow to all of the Community of Christ, people that we’ve gotten close to.” They were personal friends, and I knew that they would be devastated by it. And my first action was to kneel down and just offer gratitude and try to seek how we could bridge that.
And it was devastating far more than anyone can imagine, because these were people who had maintained the temple, loved the temple, had generously allowed us to hold meetings in the temple, who generously had invited us in. And if we needed to get somebody through the temple early morning or late night, they’d go get the keys and take their personal time. And to them, all of a sudden, it was for naught, and they had learned to live with that arrangement, and we were so amicable that they thought that had gone forever.
And so, a lot of it was trying to comfort them, assure them that it’s the Lord’s building — and not their building, and not our building — that it’s the Lord’s building, and we would do all we could to make sure that it was treated that way and they were treated with all of the respect and love that we could show.
And I don’t think those wounds are yet fully healed, yet we remain close to all of them and all of the relationships that I have had. In fact, this last week, I had a conversation with a person who had been the assistant director, and it was just a wonderful thing, but you could still feel that. And so, we’re not there yet, but I think we’re well on the way.
36:30
Jon Ryan Jensen: As I’m sitting across from you and I’m watching your face, I can see the tenderness. And to think about the shouldering of that responsibility and stewardship that they took on for all those decades and the transferring of that, I can understand that’s not always an easy transition to make. But just like you said of Saints who were visiting beforehand, Latter-day Saints needed to be respectful of Community of Christ, who was caring for it, and this is not a time for “I told you so”s; this is a reverent time of, “Let us help with this now.”
37:11
Karl Ricks Anderson: Yes. And the members of the Kirtland [Ohio] Stake understand that, and especially the Kirtland [1st] Ward, they’ve made it so that they go up. This person I talked to last week, who had been the assistant director, has been ill with ovarian cancer, and she was telling us how one of the missionaries at our sites had come up and befriended her because she had had the same cancer, and she was helping her, and they were talking through because, she said, “Here’s a friend who’s been through it and has shown us love.”
And the stake there and the ward there, they have reached out to these people individually — in one case, helped remodel a home and did work. And a lot of that is not being done as a corporate body of the Church, but individual relationships in Kirtland with members of the Church. And that means far more than corporately.
Jon Ryan Jensen: Ministering to the one.
Karl Ricks Anderson: Right, ministering. That’s what makes the difference.
38:25
Jon Ryan Jensen: And so, as people visit, whether it’s this summer or anytime in the future, this is not about whose name of which church is in front of the property. It’s remembering that this was an important place for many people within our Church and others.
38:41
Karl Ricks Anderson: Yeah. And it’s the Lord’s building, and it’s a monument, really. The Kirtland Temple is a monument to major religions of the world, because you’ve got Abraham appearing there, the Muslim world. You’ve got Elijah and the ancient prophets, for the Jewish world. And for the Christians, you have the Savior Himself declaring His Resurrection from the pulpits of that Kirtland Temple. Sometimes we need to step back and take a broader look of welcoming and telling the story in a way that will touch others.
Jon Ryan Jensen: And be inclusive of those things that they hold sacred as well.
Karl Ricks Anderson: Right.
39:23
Jon Ryan Jensen: Karl Ricks Anderson, I think this is a great place for us to come to a conclusion today, and I want to do so continuing our tradition on the Church News podcast of letting our guest have the final word.
And so, Brother Anderson, what do you know now that you have had this 50 years of experience with Kirtland?
39:43
Karl Ricks Anderson: Well, it’s probably what I started out with as a boy, and that was a testimony that Joseph Smith was a Prophet. What’s changed are all of the experiences throughout my life to have that confirmed over and over and over again, to where it’s become knowledge to me. And it’s become knowledge that the Savior lives and that He is head of the Church. It’s become knowledge that Joseph was a Prophet, and his successors.
I’ve seen the current leadership. I’ve had the privilege of working with five Presidents of the Church during that period and hearing their counsel and watching them and watching revelation coming to them. So my testimony has grown because of all of the experiences that I’ve had. But not just with Kirtland, but I have served as a patriarch for 25 years, and the Lord, I have felt the Lord present on many occasions in giving those patriarchal blessings.
And I’ve learned that none of us are perfect, and the Lord loves every one of us with a love that we cannot fathom or fully understand. But I know He lives because I know His voice, and I’ve felt His presence, and that’s what’s changed, are all the experiences reconfirming what I knew as a boy, that it is the Lord’s work and Joseph was a Prophet. And it is a privilege for us to work in helping build the kingdom.
41:40
Jon Ryan Jensen: Thank you for listening to the Church News podcast. I’m your host, Church News editor Jon Ryan Jensen. I hope you learned something today about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and had your faith in the Savior increase by looking through the Church News window as a living record of the Restoration. Please subscribe, rate and review this podcast so it can be accessible to more people. And if you enjoyed the messages we shared today, please share the podcast with others. Thanks to our guests; to my producer, KellieAnn Halvorsen; and to others who make this podcast possible. Join us every week for a new episode. Find us on your favorite podcasting channels or with other news and updates about the Church on TheChurchNews.com or on the Church News app.
