The partnership of Young Men General President Steven J. Lund and his wife, Sister Kalleen Lund, has been an international one.
Having met first in Frankfurt, Germany, while President Lund was enlisted in the U.S. Army after serving a mission, they reunited later as students at BYU in Provo, Utah, and married in the Salt Lake Temple in 1980.
They have four children and several grandchildren, have served as mission leaders in the Georgia Atlanta Mission and have built a life of both religious and community service.
They join Church News editor Ryan Jensen on this episode of the Church News podcast to discuss how patterns of service and sacrifice have blessed their lives as they serve their Church, community and family.
Listen to this episode of the Church News podcast on Apple Podcasts, Amazon, Spotify, bookshelf PLUS, YouTube or wherever you get podcasts.
Transcript:
President Steven J. Lund: The capacity that these young people show is if you just open the door of service or possibility or leadership an inch, they’re ready to stand and deliver. These aren’t the future leaders of the Church; they’re leading right now. It’s been fascinating for us to see President Nelson’s prophetic vision finding place in the real world. When he called us to serve, he talked about this being a special generation that has come with special gifts and with a calling. And as we go around the world, that’s what we’re seeing everywhere. These young people are energized, and they are gifted. They bring levels of devotion that are so unusual. That instinct, that willingness towards service, is something that really characterizes a lifelong discipleship that we hope characterizes the Restoration.
1:06
Jon Ryan Jensen: This is Jon Ryan Jensen, editor of the Church News. Welcome to the Church News podcast. Today, we are taking you on a journey of connection as we discuss news and events of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints.
President Steven J. Lund was sustained remotely as the Young Men general president of The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints on April 4, 2020. As a military veteran, international businessman and former mission president, he had been uniquely prepared to take on the challenge of the role even amid challenging times. While President Lund has joined us on the Church News podcast several times as a Church leader, we now get to know him in a different and more personal capacity as a husband, father, family and businessman.
He is joined today by his wife, Sister Kalleen Lund. Their partnership has been an international one, having met first in Frankfurt, Germany, while President Lund was enlisted in the U.S. Army after having served a mission. They reunited later as students at BYU in Provo and married in the Salt Lake Temple in 1980.
Together, they have four children, several grandchildren, and have built a life of both secular and nonsecular service. From 2003 to 2006, they served as leaders in the Georgia Atlanta Mission and continue to accept callings and opportunities to serve their Church, community and family.
President and Sister Lund, welcome today to the Church News podcast.
President Steven J. Lund: Thanks, Ryan. It’s great to be here.
Sister Kalleen Lund: Thanks for having us.
2:26
Jon Ryan Jensen: Sister Lund, we have heard from your husband various times, and he’s shared a little bit about the beginning of your story, including some of your family story in general conference in the past. But this is your chance to refute anything he said or maybe correct the record. And so I want to give you the first chance to maybe share a little bit of how the Lund family began.
President Steven J. Lund: Now you’ve got my pulse up.
2:48
Sister Kalleen Lund: No, we’re pretty on — we’re totally together on that. So, my father received a job transfer. I lived in Tooele, Utah. I was a high school student junior, and I was working towards scholarship opportunities and all that. And my dad came home one day and said, “We’re moving.” And of course, all my friends and neighbors were like, “No, no, come stay and live with us.”
And it was really a struggle for me to leave. And my dad came to me one day and said, “Kalleen, I really need you to come.” And what do you say to that? If your dad asks, you go. And so, it was a challenge, but the Church became central. It was very important to my family, but central to us, as we were in a foreign country, we were in a military ward, and the people there were so important to us.
One day, I’d been in high school for, I don’t know, a month or two, and they had a ward open house. In those days, you could invite your friends to come to church, and you could take them into the chapel and then just show them what the church looks like. And so I brought three of my little friends, my high school girls, and while we were touring the church, we met Steve and Rich. His friend, a nonmember friend who had come, he had just arrived, so it was the first 20 minutes. So we always say we can put an X in the carpet where we met. And we’ve since been back, and we can do that.
President Steven J. Lund: We didn’t actually put an X, but we could, couldn’t we?
Jon Ryan Jensen: The Church might frown on that. Maybe they’ll put a plaque there one day, though. So you meet there for the first time. President Lund, that’s your first time going to that?
4:27
President Steven J. Lund: Yeah, my friend and I had just transferred together from Georgia, where we had been serving in the military, and so I’d learned of this open house. So I called him and said, “We should connect and go down to my church, where they’re having an open house. There will be food, there might be girls.” And so he came. And I was walking down the hallway, kind of opening doors for the first time I’d been in the church, though. I’d say, “And this is —” I’d open, look and say, “— the Chapel,” or “And this is the kitchen.”
And I opened one door, and as I opened it, the doorknob turned in my hand, because people were coming in from the other side as it opened. I found myself confronted by these eyes that I almost fell into. But she was in high school, so I wasn’t quite sure what I was feeling there. But anyway, we became friends. And then two years later, we were both at BYU at the same time, and I discovered she wasn’t a Laurel anymore; she’s actually somebody that I should know. And so things developed.
5:30
Sister Kalleen Lund: So, my sister was also a young adult living there with us, and she and Steve served together, and so the young adults just lived at my house. All the family home evenings, all of the devotionals, all of the missionary discussions happened in our home. And so we got to know these servicemen so well. He was just part of our family. I really respected him.
The other thing I would say about that initial meet was he spoke in church once, and I can almost quote to you what he said. He talked about sacrifice and how truly there is no sacrifice in life, because every time you do anything for the Lord, he repays you a hundred fold. And I remember in that moment saying, “Someday, I’m going to marry someone just like that Steve Lund.” He was too old for me, so it was never that, but it was like he was my gold standard. And one day I had a wish that I could marry someone just like him, and I was the lucky gal.
6:32
Jon Ryan Jensen: So you were already establishing what it is that you wanted and what you hoped to have, and Heavenly Father rewards that as well, just like sacrifice. Knowing what you wanted, He was putting you on a path.
Sister Kalleen Lund: Well, I feel very rewarded.
6:46
President Steven J. Lund: It was a tender mercy all around, because back at BYU, she was very popular. She was the cute girl that would never have given me the time of the day, except that I had met her at a time of diminished capacity, when she was a stranger in a strange land, and I got a little bit of an inroad there that allowed me to get her attention later. So it’s a sweet thing.
7:10
Jon Ryan Jensen: Well, and we kind of skipped over you having served a mission, President Lund. And so I’m sure that there were some experiences there that perhaps prepared you for what you would experience in the military and then going on to BYU.
Would you share a little bit of maybe how your testimony was forged during that time of your life?
7:27
President Steven J. Lund: Many people talk about their military experiences having been a drudge and a very difficult thing. I had just served two years as a missionary for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints in Holland and Belgium, and after that, basic training was a piece of cake. That was easy, because I had learned the things that you really go to basic training to learn; self-discipline and getting up and getting out and engaging the world on its own terms. And my mission taught me all that in really important ways, because I wasn’t all that going onto my mission. I was kind of a lazy kid from California who wasn’t used to putting my full effort into things.
So my mission was — I sometimes think and say that I’ve had some really interesting formative experiences in my life. I graduated from seminary, graduated from high school against all odds, served a mission, went in the military, graduated from college, graduated from law school. If I had to lose all but one of those formative activities, the one I would keep would be my mission, for sure, because that’s the place where I came to know the things that matter most. But it also set me up for success in those other things that I did, success that I could never have accomplished had I not learned what I learned on my mission.
Sister Kalleen Lund: He also had a great mission president, Max Pinegar, who was just really important in our lives, not just on his mission, but through our whole lives.
President Steven J. Lund: Yeah, that was a rare thing to have an ongoing relationship as we worked together professionally for 10 or 15 years later.
9:17
Jon Ryan Jensen: Well, and you would have a chance, then, to become that influential couple in missionaries’ lives. And we’re skipping a number of other things that have happened, but it’s a good segue for us. You were called to serve as mission leaders and serve from 2003 to 2006 in Atlanta, Georgia. And so, again, with the building of a testimony now together as a couple to be serving.
What was that transition like? What was that experience like for you to serve together in that capacity?
9:45
Sister Kalleen Lund: We had always served pretty separately. He’d always had heavy Church callings, I’d had heavy Church callings, and this was the first time where we just really got to dig into it together. It was a joy. We love those missionaries. It was just an adventure. It was fun. Every day was a challenge, to be sure, but it was just fun to be together and do something so important.
10:10
President Steven J. Lund: Such a unique Church service, unlike anything else in the Church, really, where you’re so equally harnessed doing the same things. She says our missionaries; we loved our missionaries, and that was true, and they loved us. And when I say that, I mean they loved her and they tolerated me. But she was a model of what lifelong discipleship looks like, that many of our missionaries still look to and admire so much.
10:37
Sister Kalleen Lund: Well, and we just really believe fun should be a big part of the adventure. If you’re not having fun throughout the day, people aren’t going to be attracted to you. We had missionaries who would sing door to door, and they would run, and it was just we wanted them to infuse life and their own personalities into missionary work. And we were so proud of them as they tried and did that.
And it was fun that our children kind of came along with us in a way. Our oldest daughter was married with a baby, and they were going to law school in Houston, and she immediately just joined in with the sister missionaries there and was teaching so that she could be a part of what we were doing. Our oldest son left the MTC a week before we got there, so they bought clothes together.
President Steven J. Lund: We bought matching wingtips. He went to Australia, and I went to Georgia.
11:32
Sister Kalleen Lund: That’s true. And so, our letters were all about, “What are you doing in district class?” and “How’s it working in your mission?” And that was fun. And then our youngest daughter, she just was all in. She just was — she came with us, she was 13. She tried out the things that we were teaching at school, and she was so successful. She went as the weird Mormon girl who, really, there’s a lot of antagonism in the South towards the Church, and by the time she left as a sophomore, they had voted her homecoming queen. Who does that? Those lovely people just loved her, and I will love them forever for doing that for her. When the light of the gospel shines through your eyes, people can’t help but be attracted to it.
12:20
President Steven J. Lund: The story I love about her is we sent her off to the eighth grade, coming from Provo, she’s going to this new junior high school, and a much bigger junior high school than she had been attending. And we kind of wondered how that all was going to go. So we watched her leave in the morning with a little bit of a full heart, wondering, “Can we come along and help fight the fight?” She was up to the task.
She came home that night, though, and I said, “Well, how’d it go?” And she walked in the door, and she said, “Horrible.” “What do you mean?” She says, “Well, they asked me the question, and I had nothing.” I said, “What are you talking about?” And she said, “Well, I went into the cafeteria at lunchtime, and I had my little sack lunch, and I didn’t know anybody. So I’m looking around, and I don’t know anybody. So I sit at a table by myself. And in a few minutes, these three girls came and sat around me, and as they sat down, they said, ‘So, we hear you’re a Mormon.’”
Jon Ryan Jensen: Day 1.
President Steven J. Lund: “And one of them goes, ‘Yeah, we hear you’re a Mormon. What’s so special about being a Mormon?’ Dad, that’s the question. That’s the question you wait your whole life for somebody to ask you. And when they asked me, I had nothing. My mind just went completely blank.” I said, “Well, what did you say?” She says, “Well, I said, ‘Well, I don’t know. What do you know about Mormons?’”
And I said, “Well, that’s good. That was a good start. What’d they say?” She said, “Well, one of them said, ‘Well, we know your closets are all full of food.’” And while she was puzzling about that, another one says, “Yeah, we heard that when Jesus comes again in the Rapture, that we will all be gathered up together into the skies to greet Him, but the Mormons are going to be left behind, and so you’re going to need the food.”
And then she started laughing. I said, “So what did you say?” And she said, “I told him, ‘Well, you know, you’re right about the food thing. We’re taught that you should have a little extra food around just in case your dad loses his job.’” And she says that they all looked at each other and said, “You know, that’s right. That’s a good idea,” because they’d been through that, apparently. And she said, “But I think you made the part up about the Rapture, because when Jesus comes again, we’re coming with you.” And they said, “All right, we’re in this together,” and they all high-fived each other. And those became her dear friends the rest of the time.
Jon Ryan Jensen: Immediately learning what beliefs they can share together of each other.
President Steven J. Lund: Which is a very Southern thing; we talk about religion. We talk about Sunday School in the South. So it’s a sweet thing.
14:47
Jon Ryan Jensen: So, serving together in the mission, you’re both set apart at the same time, you’re serving for a given time that you know exists. But Sister Lund, you mentioned that before, you had different callings, and I think that’s the experience of most members of the Church.
And so, how did you support each other in those callings and the professional and the personal development and the family growth? What did that look like for the Lund family as your kids were growing up?
15:16
Sister Kalleen Lund: Busy, busy, busy. We are always super busy, but we like that. We like being involved with people and serving. And so, he was always in an elders quorum, either a president or a counselor. He ended up being a high councilperson over young and single adults, and bishop and stake —
President Steven J. Lund: Bishop in a young single adult ward, and then in a state presidency of a young single adult ward. So we kind of lived our life around college kids.
15:44
Sister Kalleen Lund: Well, and for me, I was always with Young Women’s or Primary. And so, if I had something going on and he had a minute, he would always come and support me, and vice versa. I felt really strongly that people needed to see that I supported him in what he was doing. And when he served out of our ward, we would bring our kids. I wanted the ward to see that he had a family that supported him and loved him.
16:11
President Steven J. Lund: She kind of needed to show our kids that, “Dad actually does go to church, even though he’s not with us, he’s attending somewhere.” But throughout that period, truth be known, we always had a little bit of a knot in our stomach, because between heavy work responsibilities and Church responsibilities and a family with the issues that families have, we were always feeling like balls were hitting the floor, like we haven’t got it all together.
So it was really — we’ve had a good, busy, full life. I don’t think anything extraordinary about our workload and so forth, and I think not anything extraordinary about how well we’ve handled those things. I think we’ve done our best and gotten through. And I think sometimes we, as a species, worry too much about things left undone as we’re doing our best to move along.
17:06
Sister Kalleen Lund: Well, and every day you just try your best. I remember early on I hadn’t served a mission early on, so when we served as mission leaders, that was my first time, and it took my breath away. There’s a lot to know. I would ask our assistants, “OK, what do we do today?” And they would have to kind of just hold my hand.
Jon Ryan Jensen: Well, they wouldn’t actually hold her hand.
Sister Kalleen Lund: I mean, emotionally hold my hand. But I remember one day, I was feeling really overwhelmed, and I hadn’t even gotten out of bed yet, and I just offered this prayer. I said, “Heavenly Father, this is a lot.” And I said, “I think I can put my feet on the floor. Will You do the rest?” And that has been a mantra for my life. I put my feet on the floor, He does the rest. But you’ve got to get your feet on the floor.
17:54
Jon Ryan Jensen: I think there’s something to be learned there, because the him doing what comes after that comes because you developed a pattern of obedience to the things that he would want you to do. That didn’t start at age 2 or 3; that was developed over a couple of decades of obedient living.
18:12
Sister Kalleen Lund: Well, and early in our marriage, we were poor as church mice going to school, and we had decided to not put off our family. And so we were having littles and living on GI Bill, basically, and just struggling financially, but making it work. And we had three little children. Steve’s brother was living with us at the time in a small, little apartment down by the cemetery in Provo, and we were just getting to the point where we thought we might have enough for a down payment for a house.
President Steven J. Lund: I actually got a job.
Sister Kalleen Lund: We had a job, yeah. This was big. Our dreams were coming true. And the bishop came to Steve, and this was back in the day when you would have assessments for helping the Church with financial things.
19:01
Jon Ryan Jensen: Yeah, so for newer members of the Church who aren’t familiar with that, when a new building was going to be built or the Church had a need of some sort, then members in each ward were given an assessment, an assignment, to contribute a certain amount to the accomplishment of that goal.
19:16
Sister Kalleen Lund: Right, thank you. And this ward that we were in had a beautiful organ, but it needed to be refurbished. And who knew, but we were one of the wealthier people in our neighborhood.
Jon Ryan Jensen: Wealthy among college students is relative.
President Steven J. Lund: Exactly.
Sister Kalleen Lund: Oh my gosh. And so the bishop had come to Steve to give this assessment, and it was basically what we had in our bank account. And it was like, “Wow.” We waited a really long time for these dreams to come true. And yet, for me, there wasn’t even a question.
19:50
President Steven J. Lund: So I went and told her. We were trying to save a down payment, and I’m doing all this math. Every $100 you take off of your mortgage means, over the course of 30 years, it saves us much, so we’re trying to get every dollar into this down payment. And then this assessment came along, and he gave us a number that was not a huge number, but it was big for us, and it was material to that number. And she said, “Well, what did you say?” And I said, “I said, ‘Well, I thought we could afford $100.’” And she said, “The bishop asked you for $500, and you said you could give him $100? I don’t think so. I don’t think that’s the way we’re going to live our life.”
And I stopped all of a sudden and realized, “Oh man, I’m looking at this backwards, aren’t I?” And so we ended up giving some multiples of that, because we could, because we had this money for the down payment in the deal. So we went ahead and did that. And you know what? We ended up being able to buy a house, and we’ve been able to get along just fine like that.
Sister Kalleen Lund: No, not just fine.
President Steven J. Lund: And it didn’t change our lives in any negative way, but it put a pattern in place that has mattered all of our lives, that our life, our professional lives, our Church lives are about something more.
21:02
Sister Kalleen Lund: The windows of heaven were absolutely open to us (see Malachi 3:10), because we were generous in our poverty. And when people are struggling with tithing or fast offering or any of that, I would say, “Run.”
President Steven J. Lund: So we’ve had lots of opportunities to make little contributions here and there, but that one was formative, when it hurt and then it didn’t hurt.
Another very formative thing that came along in our lives was that one day, our little 9-year-old came home from school, or came home from playing a pickup touch football game, and he hurt. His leg hurt, and he was crying. And this was a kid who didn’t cry. He made other kids cry. And he wasn’t very big, but he was just this wild man. And it turned out that he had cancer. As time went on, we discovered that it was a very difficult childhood cancer he was dealing with. And we went through three years of treatments with him, where it was the center theme of our lives. We had great faith that he would be healed and be OK and that he would get through this. He was a tough kid, and good medicine, and we’re at Primary Children’s Hospital.
But as time got on, he got sicker and sicker, and ultimately we lost him. So that was a time when our faith was — tested, I guess, wouldn’t be an inappropriate word, but where we found ourselves confronted with the abyss of, “Yeah, we know the Church is true, but now this really matters.” And so it was a time of real growth for us as we dealt with those issues. And we’ve come out the other side. I tell you this story reluctantly, because I don’t want anybody to feel bad about it. Tanner is fine. We know that our son is just fine. We’re a little scarred up, but we’re going to be OK too. We’re one hug away from being whole again, and that day is coming.
22:58
Sister Kalleen Lund: But you think of what memories are so indelibly in my mind, and one is he was in the bone marrow unit so sick, bald. When you have a bone marrow treatment, it does really hard things to you, so having a hard time breathing, and he couldn’t swallow, he couldn’t eat, and he really couldn’t talk. And I remember he grabbed his dad’s hands and just put them on his bald head. He couldn’t even say, “Dad, I need a blessing.” But he did that thing.
And to empower your children with a connection to heaven, his faith grew so much through this terrible experience. It changed us all. Heavenly Father does not make us go through anything that’s not going to make us stronger, and it made him powerful. That boy was powerful. And he was ready to meet his God when he died. And he made us more ready. And so I value that experience.
24:01
President Steven J. Lund: Yeah, that’s a powerful memory, as he lifted my hands up. He was just soaked with perspiration because of what he was going through, the pain. As he dropped my hands on his head, it was a splash splash on that fevered head. That was an important moment in our lives.
24:22
Jon Ryan Jensen: It brings to mind Elder Dieter F. Uchtdorf of the Quorum of the Twelve Apostles in a recent general conference, 2024, October, he said, “Our testimony will be tested and tried. Faith is not faith if never tested. Faith is not strong if never opposed. So don’t despair.” And you’ve shared multiple experiences where your faith and different aspects of your faith were tested. And thank you for sharing.
24:52
President Steven J. Lund: What we learned going through that, the great takeaway I took, is Heavenly Father doesn’t necessarily create these things. I don’t think He causes cancer. We live in a fallen world. So He doesn’t cause these things, but He doesn’t waste them. When His children suffer, He brings meaning to them. And if we’ll just pay attention, that meaning can animate our lives.
Jon Ryan Jensen: Thank you.
25:18
Sister Kalleen Lund: And rewards of when you do the thing, He blesses you. He has always, always blessed me. The Spirit has been abundant in my life, from a very early age. I’ve known I felt connected to Him, and the reward is always worth the work, always.
25:37
President Steven J. Lund: And we’ve always been presented with amazing role models in our youths; great bishops, great people who loved us, family members, mission leaders, stake presidents, folks that have shown us what this looks like. And we’ve tried really hard to try to keep up and haven’t. The giants in our life remain the giants in our lives. But we live in a great Church where, if we just look around, we can find people who are fighting the good fight.
26:07
Sister Kalleen Lund: Well, and I think that’s so important. I’m almost 65 and still going to girls camp, and the reason I do that is because someone did that for me. I want to make sure that the magic that happened for me at girls camp happens continually. This last year, I pulled the girls aside and said, “You know, I don’t do this selflessly. I do it so that you will return the favor. I’m expecting you girls to do this for your girls and then for their girls.” We have to repeat the pattern, or we lose something.
26:41
Jon Ryan Jensen: I love that thought. Thank you for sharing some of that and how you counsel together and work together. And I think that there’s a lot of strength to be found from hearing those examples of individuals who have gone, and now you’re watching your children raise grandchildren.
How different is that for you, then, to see them being parents? Because I imagine there’s a little difference between going on to girls camp because someone did it for you, and watching your children develop as parents and try to maybe pattern their lives after what you did in your home.
27:15
Sister Kalleen Lund: Well, and my heart is just bursting. So, I went to girls camp that second week of June. My other daughter has been a Young Women’s leader and has worked so hard in the Young Women’s program to love on those girls. My youngest daughter is at girls camp right now. My son, last week, is the bishop of a new ward, the Young Men’s president bishop, and was on high adventure. Imagine how I feel that that experience was so important to me, and I see my kids doing that for others. Wow. Is there a greater reward? I don’t think so.
27:53
President Steven J. Lund: It seemed like it was harder when we were doing it. They make it all look so easy, but it was harder when we had those.
Sister Kalleen Lund: They do have better supplies today.
President Steven J. Lund: I think they might be better people today too. That was a good catch about our son, the bishop. He’s actually the Young Men president, and the bishop thing is just a side hustle that Young Men presidents do.
28:12
Jon Ryan Jensen: And that’s been a significant change in the last little while, since President Russell M. Nelson became President of the Church, and to get the bishops and bishoprics more focused on their role presiding over and helping the Aaronic Priesthood quorums. But now, President Lund, in the role that you have as the general Young Men president of the Church, you get to go and see how that is implemented around the world.
And so, are you seeing — or what have you seen that has helped you know that those same things that you have lived are happening in every corner of this earth?
28:50
President Steven J. Lund: It’s been fascinating for us to see President Nelson’s prophetic vision finding place in the real world. When he called us to serve, he talked about language he used in his 2018 “Hope of Israel” talk. He talked about this being a special generation that has come with special gifts and with a calling. Remember the Young Men’s Theme, the Aaronic Priesthood Theme, says, “I am a beloved son of God, and He has a work for me to do.” And it goes on then to detail what that looks like.
And as we go around the world, that’s what we’re seeing everywhere. These young people are energized, and they are gifted. They bring levels of devotion that are so unusual. As President Nelson has tried to build a temple culture in the Church by building temples, but also by helping us understand more and more the importance of the temple. One of the fascinating things we’ve seen as we’ve traveled the earth is — I think of it as the 5 a.m. syndrome. People often will say to us, “You need to go drive by our temple at 5 o’clock in the morning, and you’ll see a line of kids waiting for the doors to open, who are out there, all over the world.” It’s a tremendous thing.
30:09
Jon Ryan Jensen: You know, and even here in Utah. I live right by the Layton Utah Temple, and I think the Bountiful temple felt like they might get a little bit of a respite, but the Layton temple opens and no, it just meant that more kids from that Bountiful temple district could be waiting outside those doors, and all of them in the Layton district were waiting. And then Syracuse opens; and the Syracuse Utah Temple has two baptismal fonts. And they were booked out for months before the doors even opened. And yet, you still saw the line of youth at Layton and at Ogden. And so there are always more youth wanting.
30:42
President Steven J. Lund: And away from Utah too. I was just out in Missouri and learned of a seminary class out there, where they’re a more remote area of Missouri. Well, once a week at 3 o’clock in the morning, they get up and they get in a van, and they find each other, and they get in a van, and they drive, and they do temple work, and they drive back again, and then they go to school. Once a week, and it’s been going on for a couple of years. And the numbers attending continue to grow. It’s an astonishing display of discipleship but is emblematic of the kinds of devotion and insights and internal compass that we see in our youth all over this world.
31:23
Jon Ryan Jensen: I remember being down in Salvador, Brazil, for the dedication of the Salvador temple and was talking with some youth after that dedicatory session. And I said, “What does this temple mean to you?” And they said, “Oh, we know the answer to this” — which, I don’t have a right or wrong answer, but it seemed like they were set on having the right answer for this question.
They said, “We talked about this last week in Young Men’s. We calculated out how long it previously took us to get to the temple, and so we know how much time we’re going to save by not needing to travel quite as far. And so now we know how many extra times we will get to be in the temple that we didn’t get to be in the temple before because of travel.
President Steven J. Lund: That’s calculus that occurs in the Church and nowhere else. That’s amazing.
32:07
Jon Ryan Jensen: Loved it. So, having served in this calling, the two of you get an opportunity we’ve talked about most recently, getting to be at the seminar for new mission leaders. And what a difference that is being there in the role you currently have compared to the role of the brand-new mission presidents.
And if it’s OK, I’d like to ask if you’ll share a little bit of the comparison between what it felt like to be in that training as mission leaders versus being there in your current roles.
32:39
Sister Kalleen Lund: Well, the first time, we were in a panic. I had not served a mission, and so I was just writing every note I’d read, everything that the Church had sent us. I was almost in a panic — no, I was in a panic — trying to figure out, because you don’t want to disappoint, right? You don’t want to disappoint those missionaries or their families or the Lord or your own family. And so it was so inspiring, though.
I remember we were, one evening, Steve and I had finished like a day’s worth of classes, and I turned to him, and I said, “Steve, we are going to have to up our game. These people, this place, feels as close to me as the celestial kingdom.” And I said, “I want to be with these people. We’ve got to up our game. We’ve got to do better.”
33:31
President Steven J. Lund: If we want to live with them, we’d better start living like them. So we’re trying to do better. But now we’re going and visiting, we can kind of relish that experience of seeing with clarity the majesty of the consecration that exists among that group of people who have — just at the suggestion of a stranger, usually — they’re willing to step out of their lives, step away from their families, go to the craziest places on earth and give of themselves. It’s a testimony to me of the Restoration. It’s an inspiration to me of the power of testimony.
34:15
Jon Ryan Jensen: And at the same time, I hear this story arc from the very beginning when the two of you meet in Frankfurt to now seeing those nearly 200 missionary couples leaving to lead missions, I’m reminded of what President Camille N. Johnson, general Relief Society president of the Church, said when she said that for each of us, there is a time and a season for the kind of service that we can give.
And so whether that’s the Young Men or Young Women adviser who’s up at camp or just overnight for that one night at camp, or you’re able to give those three years, the Lord knows your season, and the Lord calls you to the task that He knows that you’ve been prepared for in this moment.
34:54
Sister Kalleen Lund: Yeah, there’s no doubt.
President Steven J. Lund: And they’re all calls to consecration. People talk about how hard it is being a mission president, and it is, but it’s not any harder than being a bishop, except the bishop’s got 40 other things going on at the same time. And so that instinct, that willingness towards service, is something that really characterizes a lifelong discipleship that we hope characterizes the Restoration.
35:20
Sister Kalleen Lund: And one of the sweet things of going now, because we aren’t in a panic, we’re not having to go serve missionaries right now, but you could minister to the mission presidents and their wives and let them know, “It’s going to be OK. We’ve done it. It’s a joy. You’re going to love most minutes, and just don’t waste it.”
We called our mission a “miracle-a-day program,” because you are, as mission leaders, the receptacle of all miracles in that area. The missionaries will tell you their miracles. They’ll tell you their miracles of the investigators that they’re teaching, with their families at home, and then our own families had miracles. And the members tell you also, “You are just filled.” And I would say keep a journal of miracles, because that’s what you’ll teach. That’s what the people want to know, is what’s happening, is the Church really growing. And it is, and it’s remarkable.
36:16
President Steven J. Lund: That’s the miracle of missionary work: You actually live right where the rubber meets the road, where transformation is going on, where the sparks from heaven collide with human lives. And it’s just an amazing thing to be witness to.
36:32
Jon Ryan Jensen: And I can testify; I had one of those mission presidents who encouraged us to keep journals of those kinds of things that were happening. And the difference that it makes 20 and 25 years down the road to go back and read those and have that moment brought back in this vivid reality.
Sister Kalleen Lund: Well, and don’t you find that it was a super miracle van, but now it’s even greater. You look back and think, “How in the world was I a part of that?”
36:56
Jon Ryan Jensen: Yes. The inadequacy that I cannot believe some of those things. That’s absolutely true. President, we can’t finish a podcast without mentioning the fact that this year’s coming up on the end of your time as the general Young Men’s president.
President Steven J. Lund: I don’t know what you’re talking about.
Sister Kalleen Lund: He’s in denial.
Jon Ryan Jensen: OK, all right, sorry to break that news to you.
37:19
President Steven J. Lund: We’re excited about the new changes that are coming, but we’re not really ready, in our minds, to step away. But better things are ahead. We’re getting an upgrade in the presidency’s office, so this will be fun.
37:31
Jon Ryan Jensen: The new Young Men general president, Timothy Farnes, lives close to my parents’ home and had a chance to meet with them, and they’re excited to see what he does and his new presidency. But I know that there’s a lot of effort that goes in. I have been over to your offices, and in this calling, you maintain your work schedule, you maintain your family schedule, and this calling adds just a little part to your life as well.
And I’m really intrigued to know what you have learned about the youth of the Church. As you look to the future after five years of seeing them, regardless of programs and projects and organization and size of boards and branches, what’s the thing that you’re going to take away from this as you look at the youth after this five years of service?
38:23
President Steven J. Lund: President Jeffrey R. Holland says it best. He says, “We underestimate their [capacity] and overestimate their [training].” The capacity that these young people show is if you just open the door of service or possibility or leadership an inch, they’re ready to stand and deliver. These aren’t the future leaders of the Church; they’re leading right now.
The story that keeps coming to my mind is we were in the DR Congo, and there, there’s such enormous poverty, and yet, such remarkably, just beautiful people who come with such enthusiasm. We had a little interview with — we met a little family, a mom and a dad and three girls and a boy, and they were all on their way to FSY that summer. And so this was just a few months ago, this summer. And I asked this beautiful 16-year-old Congolese girl, “What keeps you awake at night?”
And she said, “Oh, my dad. We worry about our dad. He works so hard. He works every free minute in order to provide food for us and shoes for us to wear and clothing. And if anything were to happen to him, we don’t know how he does what he does. And so we pray for him always.” And so I turned to the dad. And I so appreciate that. Most of the kids in my neighborhood, that’s not their first thought is, “Boy, I hope my dad’s OK,” but it probably should be. “I hope my mom’s OK.” It probably should be.
So I turned to the dad and said, “So, you’ve got three kids on their way to FSY conference this summer, and we always require that families contribute something towards that so that they have skin in the game and so forth. Here in the Congo, that amount is $5 per child to go to FSY.” Which, in a Utah sense, doesn’t seem like a big deal. But for them, I could tell that it was. And times three. “Is that the right number? Are we asking too much?”
And he said, thought for a moment, he says, “No, President. That’s not too much. We certainly must sacrifice for the blessings that we get to some extent. And to raise that money, it will not be difficult for us. We just won’t eat some days.” And he was saying, “This is not a big deal. We’ll just miss some meals.” And right now, they probably eat one meal a day, and maybe sometimes two. But, “We just won’t eat some days. We’ll be OK.”
Now, that’s the youth of the Church, and that’s the modeling that they see about what it means to be a dad and what it means to be a mom. The future is very bright for The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints, because we’re filled with that.
41:19
Jon Ryan Jensen: Thank you for sharing that. That’s tender. And that’s not an experience that everybody gets to have, and so I’m grateful that we can share that today.
President Steven J. Lund: Thank you.
Jon Ryan Jensen: It has been a pleasure to watch you and your presidency serve the youth of the Church over these years. And as a dad of four youth, I’m just really grateful for everything that you and they have done, and your spouses.
Before we close today, we would love to give the two of you the last word, as we do every time here on the Church News podcast. And we’d like to close by letting you share what it is that you know now, having had the experiences you’ve had and the testimonies that you’ve seen grow.
And so, Sister Lund, we’ll start with you. What do you know now?
42:07
Sister Kalleen Lund: Yeah, I’m just so grateful that God has been so gracious to me. I feel like my dad taught me to be really obedient. His adage was “When I say, ‘Jump,’ your job is to say, ‘How high?’” And at the time, I thought that was kind of not nice, but I have grown to love my dad that he taught me to just be obedient. And as I was obedient to my Primary teachers, my Sunday School teachers, my seminary teachers, I have been so richly rewarded. I’m so grateful I didn’t miss out on so many of those things.
That’s probably been the greatest blessing of my life, is just feet on the ground, just being a part of this great Church, and that being able to teach my children proper principles and feeling secure in that, that by following the counsel that our leaders give us, our families are going to be mostly safe. When I see my children feeling the Spirit and working through their own struggles, I’m confident they’re going to find answers, because that’s what God does. He answers our questions in His own good time. And if we’re patient with him, we’re so richly rewarded.
I’ve been really grateful to watch my husband serve with his whole heart, his whole heart, and his counselors have been so great, and it’s been a really rich experience. About four or five months ago, he often talks about that experience of having President Nelson call him and talk about the gathering. And I turned to him one day, and I said, “Steve, you are his witness. A prophet of God called and said, ‘Something’s happening, and I want you to be a part of it.’ And you have gone through the world and seen the gathering, not only of youth, but of members of the Church and our sweet missionaries who are working so hard.”
I know for sure that our prayers, collectively as a Church, aren’t empty. When we pray for the missionaries, when we pray for the Prophet, they live on those prayers. It’s essential that we pray every opportunity that we have to sustain this great work, because God’s coming. He’s coming, and I want to be there. I want to be a part of it. And I’m really grateful for all those experiences that I’ve had.
44:32
President Steven J. Lund: If the question is “What do I know now better than I knew before?” I don’t know that I can answer it better than that, than Kalleen has answered it. We’ve learned with a surety — we’ve always known this, but we know it so much more clearly now — who runs this Church, who’s in charge here. And it’s not President Nelson, and he would never pretend that it’s him.
But President Nelson told us just this most interesting thing. He said, “Every prophet from Adam through the ages until today has looked forward to this time when this generation, these generations, would be born into the world, having come here with special gifts, to be about the most important thing going on in the world today.” He describes the gathering as being the most important thing. And then we go out, and he said something like this, that prior prophets have looked forward to this time, when sometime in the foggy future, that this gathering would take place. We don’t talk that way now. He says, “Because the gathering is now. It is in full process right now.”
And so you hear that, and we know that, and we’ve been a little part of that in a little bit, but then to go out in the world and see just the miraculous pace of hastening that’s going on. President McKay and President Kimball used to talk the same way: “You’re a special generation. You’ve come for special purposes.” I grew up feeling that. And so when he said it the first time, I thought, “Yeah, I’ve heard that before. I guess that’s the way we talk to the youth.”
And then it occurred to me the other day that: You know what? When I first heard that as a child, there were a million and a half members of the Church. And when President McKay says, “You’re special, and you’ve come here for a special purpose, because important things are happening,” between then and now, the Church has grown by an order of magnitude. And so, mission accomplished, I would say.
But more than that, my generation, the subsequent generations, are raising up this generation, who, in the course of their lives and their ministries and their service are going to see the Church grow not an order of magnitude, but something more than that, and with a conclusion grander than that. Because He is coming. And that’s what I know. I know He’s coming.
47:00
Jon Ryan Jensen: Thank you for listening to the Church News podcast. I’m your host, Church News editor Jon Ryan Jensen. I hope you learned something today about The Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-day Saints and had your faith in the Savior increase by looking through the Church News window as a living record of the Restoration. Please subscribe, rate and review this podcast so it can be accessible to more people. And if you enjoyed the messages we shared today, please share the podcast with others. Thanks to our guests; to my producer, KellieAnn Halvorsen; and to others who make this podcast possible. Join us every week for a new episode. Find us on your favorite podcasting channels or with other news and updates about the Church on TheChurchNews.com or on the Church News app.
